American Family Farmland; new book

Shay

Foulk: Welcome back everyone to another episode of the Ag Deep Pitch. Today you have Shay Foulk and Johnny Clemmie. And Johnny, I am very excited for this conversation. We had the opportunity to meet here, oh, I suppose it was a month and a half ago in Indiana, and that's kind of where you're located. You're out of Warren County, Indiana. Is that correct?

Johnny

Klemme: Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. Great to be on the podcast. Thanks for having me, Shay.

Shay

Foulk: Absolutely. You know, I would say just to start off with here, we're northwest Illinois where I am, and crops look beautiful. We're recording here August of 2025. How do things look out your way?

Johnny

Klemme: Oh, everything's incredible here in west central Indiana. Everybody's been really fortunate getting these nice, nice rains all the way up until just a week or so ago. August is here though. So I think all my friends and family members that are farmers, they're obviously hoping for another shower or two, but things look beautiful here. I mean, you know, the coffee shop talk is everybody's going to have a pretty bountiful harvest in this neck of the woods.

Shay

Foulk: What a blessing. We're, you know, today's conversation is actually focused around a book release that you have coming out here in September. And I thought it would be great to get an overview of kind of what that's about. But really, the topic is so incredibly important. And the book is titled American Family Farmland, and it talks about preserving value and creating wealth. Is that correct from a title standpoint?

Johnny

Klemme: Did I butcher it? Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, ultimately, it's sort of a landowner's guide to the inherited farm, you know, and the difficult decisions and conversations that surround the family farm.

Shay

Foulk: It's, you know, we were talking offline here a little bit, a principle of this or kind of the foundation that you said you started with in the book is determining what are your values. And when you talk about it from an inherited farm perspective, the first thing that popped into my mind, Johnny, is a lot of people may not really think about what their values are until they have the ability to influence others around them, the ability to influence the next generation. And when you go from having— and this is maybe a very basic example, But let's look at the non-involved family member that inherits ground and they have very little or no wealth. And now all of a sudden they have this tremendously valued asset. They have the ability to make decisions that have implications for generations. That's a lot to get dropped into your lap.

So, how do you, how do you even start figuring out what your values are and start making the right decisions for your family and yourself moving forward?

Johnny

Klemme: Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, a lot of my clients find themselves in that very situation and probably a lot of your clients too, and it can be a struggle. But I think a big part of this book is to allow people to start thinking about that before it's dropped in their lap. I think with any sort of succession planning or generational wealth planning, A lot of people, they wait until it's too late. They wait until they're 80 years old to start coming up with a plan for transition. And the reality is you need to start having these conversations today and with your kids, with your aunts, with your uncles. I mean, you need to start having them today. And I mean, it really kind of comes down to there's questions you can ask yourself today. What really matters to me? What matters most? Why does it matter?

And really, what do I want for myself, for my family, and probably for my own peace of mind? And if you can start there, those are big open-ended questions. I mean, you may not get the answers the first time you ask yourself those, but that's the premise of the book. And as you go through each chapter, it really breaks that down into bite-sized chunks so you can start creating a picture and creating a plan for, hey, these are the things that are most important to me. This is what I'd like to see maybe in my lifetime. And, you know, hey, if things go right, you know, and this family farm can go to the next generation, this is what I'd love to see happen. And again, I think the sooner you have those conversations, the better.

Shay

Foulk: So I'm sure there's some recurring themes when it comes to values, and I don't want you to give everything away that's in the book. I should mention here, this book's going to be available September September 23rd for purchase on Amazon. You probably have a website set up, and I'm sure we can touch base and do a further promotion of it at that time because I think there's going to be a ton of value there. But from a value standpoint, I'm sure there's some recurring themes that you see, and some words that I wrote down here was legacy, preservation, honoring history, things like that. Are those pretty common themes that you see, or there may be some others that someone that's listening that may be in this situation down the road should consider?

Johnny

Klemme: Yeah, I mean, those are definitely common themes, you know, lifestyle, you know, the life that you want to live, you know, whether that's directly on the farm itself, or even if it's just, you know, a weekend getaway that you get back to whenever you can. You know, it's, it's about alignment of goals, you know, your, your needs and your priorities, you know, short term, long term. Managing the assets, and, you know, the probably the most complicated part of those values, you know, is just understanding the family dynamics, particularly when, you know, you've got farming heirs and non-farming heirs. And I think that's also where these conversations are really important to have sooner rather than later. Because, you know, a lot of times where in my consulting work, you know, where I see a lot of the animosity is in that family dynamic of farming versus non-farming.

Non-farming heirs. And, and my sincerest hope is that a farming or a non-farming heir could pick up this book, maybe get one or two little golden nuggets out of it that could help them have that conversation and come up with a plan sooner rather than later, you know, to ensure the integrity of the family farm and the legacy that they want to leave.

Shay

Foulk: We always tell people that transitioning is the hardest thing that you have to do once in your life when it comes to farm operations. And I think for people that are inheriting farm ground, and maybe particularly for non-involved family members that get put in that situation, that's a lot at once. I mean, it is, it's a tremendous amount of value from dollars and cents. And it's, it's life-changing decisions that are being made. I, you know, you had mentioned the consulting work that you do there. I, kind of just jumped into the, the book topic and what we want to cover here today. Can you tell the listeners a little bit about kind of what all you do and back up a little bit on what your history is in this space?

Johnny

Klemme: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I grew up on a family farm in West Central Indiana. Uh, my story is in the book. I mean, a big reason why I do the work that I do today is because at a certain point in time in the past, our family sold our family farm, and it highly affected me, Shay. It really did. I, I never really put all those pieces together together till much later in life. But a big reason for writing this book and doing the work that I do today is because, you know, our family farm is no longer— I mean, it exists, you know, on the pictures on our walls and the classic, you know, airplane photos of Grandma and Grandpa's farm. But, but I'm a co-owner of a farm real estate brokerage and advisory firm. We've got offices in Lafayette, Indiana, as well as Tuscola, Illinois. It's called Guess Wine Farm and Land.

We've got a team of certified general appraisers, brokers, farm managers in Indiana, Illinois, and in Michigan. And so that's kind of the space that I'm in. I work with family farms pretty much every day of the week. But you know, what I'm really truly passionate about is working with families, helping preserve the family farm. You know, not everybody inherits a farm and immediately wants to sell it. Some people make that decision, you know, and if that is the decision they want to make, I want to make sure that they do it on their own terms and do it in a way that still honors the legacy that their family passed down to them. But, you know, my real passion is working with families and how can we preserve the family farm in some sort of capacity, you know, whether we create new ownership, sort of reinvent how the farm operates, perhaps. But that's the space that I work in.

So consulting, advisory, a lot of mediation. I mean, I'm sure you're in the same boat. It's always a lot of listening, a lot of mediation. But, you know, I love what I do.

Shay

Foulk: So yeah, well, and what you said there on the mediation, we were joking offline that, you know, family always gets along all the time and it's usually perfect, right? So that's right. And they're important decisions from needing someone like yourself, needing an advisor, needing a consultant. I think it's easy for us to say in that space, Jonnie, of how important a third party is. And I think sometimes it can sound like you need, you know, you should hire us or you should work with us. And really, from our heart of hearts, that's not what we're saying. What we're saying is we see the value that it provides families by seeing a third-party facilitator be part of these conversations.

Creating an even playing field, making sure that everybody is in the same room, same place, same time, hearing the conversations and knowing that this outside party as a consultant or a facilitator has everybody's best interest in mind. And so I just kind of wanted to highlight that of things like, you know, resources that we put out on the Ag View Solutions side or the book that you're so graciously writing and sharing your wisdom with, with the community. Those, all of them are kind of part of the puzzle on making sure that you can help make the best decisions for your family and for the legacy as we move forward. So just wanted to emphasize that. I mean, I'm, you know, we always talk that it's important to have people come in to help us do what we do in our farming operation, even though we're consultants, you know, we need that outside perspective.

So just a lot of value in that, I guess.

Johnny

Klemme: Yeah, I 100% agree. And, you know, I think even at its most simplest form, when you, when you have somebody that can bring an outside perspective that doesn't have an emotional tie to the situation, you can really get a lot of clarity there. Because whether you want to admit it or not, we're all human. And when it comes to decisions as important as the family farm, there's going to be some emotions in there. And for some people that can be You know, maybe animosity between heirs, you know, sometimes it's, it's somebody that might still be grieving the loss of a family member, you know, who passed the farm to them. And when you can sort of pause and, you know, take a 10,000-foot view and take emotion out of it, I mean, that's where a lot of families get that traction on getting through the weeds and the thick of it, you know, to, to some solutions that work for their situation.

Shay

Foulk: A gentleman that I follow on X had put up a post the other day essentially outlining some work that he had done with a family around basic land ownership principles and guidelines. And the family was not seeing the value or the wealth opportunities in their own land. Essentially, the long story short was they weren't charging enough for cash rent. You know, it was rent that hadn't been adjusted in 15 years. They were getting eaten alive by property taxes on the land. And then by the time you factor in asset appreciation versus investments, they're like, why are we doing this? You know, there's no tangible dollars that we're drawing out of the business. And the long and short of it was, you know, they probably weren't going to have any huge dividend returns for another 8 or 10 years because of some estate taxes that they were working through..

But then when he sat down and mapped out what the next 20 years looked like, 30 years looked like, the light bulb turned on of here's why this is important and here's why it matters. And, and I share that story, Johnny, from the standpoint of we have to remind ourselves in this space, or for, for the listeners here, if you're not used to what it might take to manage that land moving forward, that, that's why we're here. That's why this book exists. That's why you do the work that you do, is to help people work through these decisions. And I think from a facilitation and consultant standpoint, it's important to remind ourselves that these basic things that we maybe hold as a foundational truth might be brand new information to someone that's never been exposed to us. And it gives you the opportunity to provide value to them.

Johnny

Klemme: Yeah, absolutely. And I'm gonna, you know, it's gonna be a broken record. But you know, when, when that farm transitions, and you've got an offset in the balance of non-farming heirs versus farming heirs, you know, that's why these conversations are so important to have. And, you know, the sooner the better. I mean, if you're in a situation where you, you can pause right now and say, hey, this is going to be my situation in 5 years or 10 years down the road, you know, I may be owning this farm with, with my non-farming heirs. You need to start having those conversations today.

Shay

Foulk: So let's, let's talk a little bit more about what else is in the, in the book. You know, what have we not hit on here, Johnny? What do you think is important for people to get excited about when they think about the book that you have coming out or other topics that might be of interest?

Johnny

Klemme: Yeah, you know, I think ultimately, you know, it's meant to give you some actionable steps and to-dos and checklists. Like, there's some pretty big questions in this book that you're going to ask yourself, and you may not have the answer right away, and that's perfectly fine. That's perfectly okay. The goal of the book is to help you find your answer. Your path to progress or the next chapter, if you will. But, but there's also just a lot of actionable to-dos. I mean, I've got a lot of companion materials, downloads, worksheets. So, if there's something in particular that, that really resonates with you, I mean, you can just download it from the website. Some of them are just simple exercises while you're sitting around the kitchen table having dinner that you can go through with your immediate family.

I have some clients that, you know, they just, they don't get along with some of those other heirs. And these worksheets have been a way to bridge the gap to say, hey, you know, I'll fill out my worksheet on my own, you fill out your worksheet on your own, and then let's compare notes. Because a big part of the book is to really sort of name your values, name your goals, name your priorities, and then sort of either rank them or, you know, prioritize them in a way that, that helps you get to the next step or the next chapter for your own family farm.

Shay

Foulk: That sounds like a great list of resources. And I think the value in what you're offering there probably far outweighs whatever the cost of the book is. So I'm telling you to charge more for the book, Johnny. That's what I'm getting at.

Johnny

Klemme: Yeah, I know my publisher has told me the same thing too. But you know, at the end of the day, if one farm family can read this book and get a little more peace of mind, sleep better at night for their own situation, or, you know, maybe even just gives them a little bit of courage to have that difficult conversation, I feel like I've done my job.

Shay

Foulk: So, and I think with that too, probably the compounding effects there is there's going to be many more families I know that'll be impacted by what you're doing here. And, you know, I just want to say thank you from, from the community perspective for the time and effort that you have into that, because I know it's tremendous. But the, the conversations that are second and third order effect of the person that does read the book and then talks to their neighbor about it or shares the book or encourages them to go buy it. And the community piece of it, I think, is so important because we can get isolated with these decisions that we make and think that we're the only ones that are going, you know, I'm the only one that has to deal with inherited farm ground. Well, no, you're not. There's 10 people in a 5-mile radius that are going through the same thing now.

Probably it's just, it's such a, it's such a large issue. But you can feel like you're on an island making those decisions because either it's not talked about in the community, you don't know where to go from a resource standpoint, you don't know who to work with on that end. So, I, that's where I think probably the long-lasting tangible benefits of the impact that this book and these types of resources have is the second and third order conversations that occur out of that. And you can never measure that. So tell your publisher, you can never measure that. But it has such a dramatic impact there. That's pretty cool.

Johnny

Klemme: Yeah. And, you know, to piggyback on what you're saying, yeah, I mean, you know, people sometimes just get so caught up in their own emotions or they're stuck in their head all the time and they never sort of let it out and they do feel like they're on an island. But you're absolutely right. They're not, you know, and I think that's something that I really really appreciate about, you know, what you guys are doing and your perspective on how you work with farm families and setting up advisory boards. You know, advisory boards aren't just for big corporations, you know, I mean, we use them in our own business too, on our farm, farm real estate side. But, you know, the same thing goes for the family farm.

I mean, you need to have some outside perspective, you need to have people in your corner, you know, you need to have people like Shea, you need to have a trusted accountant and attorney, etc., on your side. And the other farm families that are out there are probably going through something similar, you know, and they may be struggling with some of the same questions that you're wrestling with at your own kitchen table. And so the book definitely reminds people, hey, you are not alone in this, right? There's other people who've gone through it too. And just know that if, if somebody with this really thorny set of problems can get through theirs, you can get through yours too.

Shay

Foulk: So I, I didn't preface this question to you, so this might be a little bit out of left field. But when you look at land as a scarcity resource and think about the very few other things that are scarce resources out there, there's this new one floating around called Bitcoin, and it's a scarce resource, scarce holder, holder of wealth really is what it is. And I had someone make an interesting comment, or I read it on a post the other day on X, and it said, yeah, Bitcoin is great and probably has long-term potential here, but I can't let my kids hunt on Bitcoin, or I can't preserve my family legacy on Bitcoin. It's not tangible. You can't hold it.

So, when you think, and I guess this is a pretty high-level question, but when you are thinking about that for the wealth preservation or wealth creation or preservation of values and legacy, how does this new era of investment opportunity or Bitcoin outlook affect some of these conversations that you're having?

Johnny

Klemme: Well, yeah, it's kind of a hot topic and it's one that I'm interested to see how it plays out. I feel like Somebody will probably write a white paper or two about this very topic, honestly. But, um, you know, that's why I really kind of started the book with, with values and what's important to you. I mean, what's important to your life right now and to your own well-being? I mean, uh, you know, there's this concept that's called return on life, which is primarily, you know, in the financial planning space. But, you know, I look at return on life as a mindset, right?

And it is, it is how are the decisions about farm and our inheritance and our future, how does it affect our, our well-being, our progress as individuals, maybe as a family unit, and just our freedom, you know, our autonomy to make decisions, you know, on our own accord, you know, and I think land in general, you know, provides us all of those tangibles. And it also provides us, you know, a laundry list of intangibles that you just don't understand. Unless you grew up on a farm, you inherited a farm, maybe you farmed the land yourself, you know, and it doesn't have to be row crop agriculture, right? I mean, it can be, you know, a very small-scale farm, a couple of acres, and you're growing food for your community, whatever it is, you know, I think ultimately, you know, those intangibles far outweigh the other side.

Shay

Foulk: I agree wholeheartedly from a conversation maybe a couple months ago, it was around planting time, is talking around the USDA programs and how SNAP is tied in and interconnected with what we have going on with farm programs. And my comment or my realization was the best way to get people to understand land or for them to care is to have them plant a garden or do some, you know, work the land, understand what it takes, understand why they should care. And until you, until you let people touch the soil and, you know, feel it in their toes, it doesn't, it doesn't carry the same weight. And I don't think you're ever going to see that with something like Bitcoin, at least not something that, that you care about as much as, as something like land and an asset that has history behind it. So I appreciate your perspective on it. I'm quite interested to see where it goes down the road too.

And, you know, I think there's opportunities probably for both there from a wealth management standpoint, but such a crucial conversation around the land piece. Johnny, I want to give you an opportunity here to just kind of wrap up the conversation. Anything that you would encourage the listeners to think more about or to kind of prepare themselves for when the book comes out? Just a reminder of how they can purchase it.

Johnny

Klemme: Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate you having me on, Shay. It's a real, real honor, for sure. I know a lot of farm families that have nothing but great things to say about you personally and your organization and how it has truly affected, you know, the way they think about their family farm and the decisions, both, you know, from an agronomic standpoint, a legacy standpoint, and a wealth standpoint. So keep up the great work. Yeah, you know, Ultimately, I mean, the book is meant to be a tool in your toolbox. It is not here to say this is how you have to do it. I mean, there's a lot of real-world, real-life examples in the book that I think anybody who picks it up will resonate with at least a portion or a part of it.

There's going to be a chapter in the book that you're going to say, "Hey, that's not for me." Maybe you'll skip over it and that's perfectly fine, but the point is that it's meant to give you a structured way to ask some of these bigger picture questions, help you navigate some of those difficult conversations, and again, remind you that, hey, you're not alone in this. Maybe this will give you some of that confidence to make some decisions that you've been putting off. We're good at that as human beings, putting off difficult decisions. And hopefully, really, at the end of the day, it'll give you a little bit of peace of mind and hopefully some confidence, you know, that the path that you're going down is the one that's right for you and right for your farm.

Shay

Foulk: And again, this will be available September 23rd as the release date. It'll be on Amazon. I think you said you'll have softcover, hardcover, and then maybe ebook version, right?

Johnny

Klemme: That's right. Yeah, all three will be available. And the website is americanfamilyfarmland.com. If you want to be the first to know about it and also get, you know, additional materials that we're putting out in addition to what's available in the book, you can go to the website, just put in your name and email address, and you'll be the first to know when all the additional worksheets and downloads and all the additional companion materials are available, as well as some additional content, you know, that's not in the book. You can get access to that too.

Shay

Foulk: Man, this is, this is great stuff. I'm looking forward to rereading it, and, and I'm also looking forward to re-reading it. And what I mean by that is, you know, I, I was at an event here in June, and the, the presenter had talked about how a revelation he had was the Bible never changes, you change when you read it. And I think that's true of so many books that we read and revisit, is the opportunity to go back and say, how have things changed? And so I would encourage anyone that's thinking about purchasing this book and buying it is don't just think about it. I'm going to read it and get the solutions. Revisit it. Revisit these ideas. We change over time. Family dynamics change over time. I think this is going to be a tremendous resource long term. Johnny, thank you so much for your time here today. I look forward to it again.

It's American Family Farmland, available here September 23rd. Thank you so much.

Johnny

Klemme: Yeah, thank you, Shay.

Shay

Foulk: And thank you everyone for listening to another episode of the Ag View Pitch. We will catch you next time.