Biologicals, profit management, and peer groups

Brad

Downing: And it all comes down to this. Two on, two out, bottom of the ninth. The Farmers lead by one. Full count, here comes the play at the plate, and it's the Ag View Pitch!

Shay

Foulk: Welcome back everyone to another episode of the Ag View Pitch. My name is Shay Foulk and joined here with special guest Brad Downing. Brad, I was wondering if you could take a minute to introduce yourself.

Brad

Downing: Sure, good afternoon Shea and thanks for having me on. I'm Brad Downing. I am the president and owner of Cross Creek Ag Solutions and Cross Creek Farms, Inc., located here in Greentown, Indiana. And we're just about an hour north of Indianapolis in the great fertile timber soils of Indiana.

Shay

Foulk: No, that's great. And how long have you been there and how long you've been farming?

Brad

Downing: So I've lived here for all my life, 39 years. I'm literally a mile away from where I was born in the home. And then we've been in this business since 2017. I've been in the ag business working for a seed company since 2004, but farmed pretty much all my life. But realistically, making my own decision on our own acres has been from 2000 on. And then 2014 is when we incorporated and started Cross Creek Farms.

Shay

Foulk: Oh, that's great. And, you know, we wanted to reach out to you today a little bit looking at your business and a few other things. Obviously the title here, biologicals, peer groups, and profit management, all things that are, you know, near and dear to your heart. So I was hoping we could maybe steer towards biologicals first. Uh, you know, if you need to just tell us a little bit about, about your business and what it is that you do there.

Brad

Downing: Sure. You're going to get me excited talking about biologicals and, uh, plant nutritionals, and I'm going to start getting everybody lost and all googly-eyed, glazed over here in a minute. So should be a good time. Perfect. Yeah, no, um, Cross Creek Ag Solutions was started in 2017, and originally it started as just a dealership, a seed dealership. As I left the company that I was working for, I took on a dealership for them to sell seed, and selling seed in 7 different states to quite a few farmers, and At that point in time, I was sourcing some biologicals through what's called BEX PFR, the Practical Farm Research. I was actually looking at their research and calling some manufacturers of some of the products that are having continual ROI, 3 to 4 years of positive ROI at different stages in the game of what they were using, whether it be pre-plant, in-furrow, 2x2, side dress.

Foliar. There's a bunch of different things I was chasing after for our own farm because I had started seeing those ROIs as well. And in 2015, we started applying chicken litter to all of our acres. And so our fertility levels were going up. We were getting quite a bit of expansive growth on the yield side of things with using litter. But from a soil standpoint, I was looking at the soils test and looking at how we could better utilize what we were putting out there. And during that time frame, about 2017, I'd moved my yield goals up from about 220 to about 275, 280 on corn. And, you know, I'm not very happy when we only make 200 to 220 bushel corn today. My, my opinion is we, we personally, for what we're doing, we're moving the needle all the way up in the high 270s and 280s is where we're going. Same thing with beans. We were happy when we got 60 bushel beans.

Well, we started messing around with some stuff and looking at what we could do. And now if, you know, we're not making 75, 85 bushel beans, I'm disappointed. So in doing that, we were chasing after manufacturers looking for if they had any kind of place to buy these products, or we had any way to get our hands on them. And unfortunately, the retail side of things, the wholesale side of things, and the sales force, there was next to none, if not none completely from a distribution end. I had an aha moment saying, if we're going to mess with this stuff and really test it on our own acres, why don't we go ahead and do this and be able to source it for farms that we're working with and advising on? So that's how that came to pass. Started out very, very small looking at it and blew it up. It wasn't just because we were out there trying to peddle it.

We were actually seeing, and the proof in the pudding was on our own farm. We were doing testing. Since 2017 on, there hasn't been a year we haven't had every field we farm has some test in it. We kind of created our own miniature testing grounds on our farm. Working with farms today from a biological standpoint, we really— what I can tell you is if anybody's looking for a silver bullet product out there, you better keep looking because none of us have found it. There is no such thing. We've really learned. That even with our own acres, looking at soil tests, looking at what our equipment's capable of doing, what timeframe we have to do things in, and then what can we accomplish. And then that basically creates a cocktail of different products. And we didn't take on just one company.

We actually have 7 different manufacturer distribution contracts with companies on the biological and plant nutritional side of things. So that basically led us down the path of being able to create unique solutions for everybody. And really work with everybody, you know, one-on-one. Sure, what I'd love to go out and sell, you know, a lot of different people, a lot of different products, sure, it'd be nice, but we really wanted to be hands-on because we know we can help move that, that yield component on, and we just got to be able to figure out what you're capable of and what your situation is and where you want to go, and then let us try to help.

Shay

Foulk: Yeah, that's fantastic. And I was wondering if we could take a look, you know, it's a little bit of a new industry. A lot of people out there don't know a lot about biologicals, what they are and what they are not. Can you talk a little bit about what is a biological?

Brad

Downing: Sure, sure. So big, big word everybody likes to talk about. What are biologicals? And everybody wants to say, well, we got biologicals. Well, what is that? Um, that's a very, very broad stroke conversation. So ultimately speaking, what we've seen is you have your macro and your micronutrients, and everybody knows what that is. But from a biological standpoint, There's things out there from a standpoint of humics and humic acid, fulvic acid, gibberellic acids, hemisilic acids. Then you start to look at cytokines, auxins, anything like that that's plant hormonal based. Then if you look at what exists in our soil today, if you look at whether it be protozoa or Pseudomonas or any of the bacteria that's in our soil today, There's all kinds of things that we have that are great and beneficial in our soils.

The problem is, for so many years, we've just been— I won't say monocultured, but from a full tillage standpoint, and some of the products that we use over time that are nitrogen-based that we've used, primarily anhydrous, are not— they're great. They're cheap ways of putting on anhydrous, and they're great products. But the problem is they're not very beneficial to soil bacteria, and not very beneficial to a biological standpoint of what's going on inside of our soil. As we look at this more, and I'm not your typical, I'm not a tree-hugging Green New Deal person. I'm actually probably the opposite of that. But as I've studied and spent more time looking into the soil biology and looking at what we can do to improve soil health, a lot of the things we're doing already from a fertility standpoint, a lot of people have been doing a lot of good things..

But when you start looking at biological levels, and you start looking at bacterial levels, we could do a better job. And that's where a lot of this comes into play. So to answer your question, biologicals are a very broad stroke question, but they have more to do with bacteria, soil, soil nematode bacteria, and a lot of your different humic, fulvic, humic, gibberellic acids, your auxins. And how do we utilize those and come up with concoctions and come up with formulations that are beneficial not only to the ground and helping unlock and untie some of your fertility that's been tied up, but how do we do that and also make it where it's plant available? And start looking at the chemistry side of things. What are we doing? Because certain molecules are different sizes. Like, prime example, calcium. Yeah, well, we'll just take calcium, for example.

Calcium and potash, those are both very large molecule type nutrients. Trying to get those into a plant, even through the stomate, through the actual leaf tissue, is very difficult. You have to figure out how can you, what can you attach to it, or what can you basically trick the plant hormonally, or from— I'll get really technical here— talking about the phyllosphere on the leaf issue. You know, how do you take that with the bacteria and make the bacteria grow efficiently and be able to get these large molecules into the plant? It's very difficult, and you have to know, you know, what you're looking for and what chemistry components can make that happen. So I just went really down to the weeds really quick.

Shay

Foulk: No, that's great. So let's talk a little bit about you know, what are some of the common misconceptions about biologicals out there? And with so many of these new products, you know, you referenced that everybody says they have biologicals and nobody on the consumer side, or very few on the consumer side, know what that actually means. So what are the common misconceptions and how do you cipher through what is the so-called, you know, snake oil— that's a term that you hear used a lot— or legitimate products? How do you cipher through that?

Brad

Downing: Yeah, well, that's, uh, I love when everybody says, oh, it's just snake oil. Yep. I love when that comment comes out because this industry, you can go back 20 years ago, guys were peddling stuff around. Not to say there was some bad stuff out there, but there was some bad stuff. Today, let's be honest, in the biological industry, it's the Wild West. There's no regulation to it right now. There's not a labeling law of any sort. I mean, there is, you have to get approvals, but there's nothing where it's a standard out there. The misconception from a biological standpoint is everybody thinks, well, if I just say, well, you've got humic acid in it, everybody thinks, oh, humic acid is just humic acid. Well, let me tell you, there is a dramatic difference between humates.

The next part is what's a big common misconception is what you've learned, or maybe some of the things that have been set out there may not always be true. The educational process to biologicals, I've learned so much in the last 3 years to realize that I'm not even— I may be past the tip of the iceberg, but I'm just below the water surface. I'm learning how much I don't know every day. It's amazing how much we don't know still about biology in the soil and within the plant. As an industry, we really— I kind of coined this, we all lived through the my grandparents' generation, the Iron Revolution, and our parents and some of us that were born into the Chemical Revolution. Well, I personally believe we're on the tip of the iceberg of the Biological Revolution. And as more standardization comes along and the misconception of, "Oh, this stuff's just, you know, it's just snake oil.

It doesn't work. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't." Well, there's some reason why sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. You have to understand what the product you're using and what your limiting factor is. And the next misconception is that there's a lot of people that want to sell just a single product that solves problems. And let me tell you, I've been in this business for a little while and looked at this for quite a while. It's a system. It's a system of products. It's a system of management to where the higher ROIs are at. It's not just, hey, try this, put it in your fertilizer and in furrow or 2x2, and it's going to solve all your world's problems. I have not seen a single product that can do that.

Shay

Foulk: Right. That's a good point. You said a couple of things in there that I want to hit on that I really think is important. We have so much to learn in soil and plant interaction now. I think that's where biologicals are definitely an exciting frontier as we move forward. Getting away from some of the traditional thinking and looking at new options of how do we improve productivity on top of the awesome, you know, genetics and plant development, product placement, and just general farming agronomic practices out there. I think that's so crucial. And then one other comment that you made is, you know, you called it the Wild West, and I'm glad that you did that because I think I've heard you say that in the past. And so when it comes to the regulation, you know, the standardization, the reporting of this, Is that something that consumers need to be nervous about, or where can they turn?

What resources are out there do you think are valuable information that is reliable where farmers can turn to?

Brad

Downing: Sure. So if you look at what I mean, the Wild West is there's a lot of different products. There's even some products out there that are exactly the same that are manufactured by different companies that have a white label. I mean, we could come along with everything we do and we could take every product we're selling with the manufacturer we're working with and white label it and call it Cross Creek A, Cross Creek B, Cross Creek X and do that. I don't want to do that. And maybe I'm crazy, maybe that's my downfall to do that, but we want to make sure we maintain the product name and the recognition of who's manufacturing it. So we're sourcing it from them in high volume so we can get good pricing, but The big thing is I want people to understand that we don't need more products out there, we need more transparency.

And what I mean by transparency in this industry, in the biologic industry, is if the person you're working with can't tell you what's in it and can't tell you why it's in there and what it is gonna do for you, you need to be looking elsewhere. That is a big key component in this industry, in the biological industry, is education. Educating not only growers, but even some people that are selling the product or working with the product. You need to know what's in this product, why does it work, and why, why does it need to be applied at certain levels or certain times, or what will it do in conjunction with other products that could have compound ROI. Or inversely, there are some products I can tell you, you mix together at higher levels, or you do some stuff that is put together and hasn't been tested, or they don't know if these things mix well, that's one problem.

But the other part is you can also get to the point where you'll tie up more because of a high humic load that you don't know exists in this one product because the person selling it to you or working with you didn't know exactly what was in it. You may not do it for a year or two, but you keep doing it at this level for 2 or 3 years, you may end up tying up. More than what you thought. So that's the big problem I have with the industry is the transparency is very, very weak right now.

Shay

Foulk: That's a great point. And with that being said, where are we at? Let's look at it from a 30,000-foot view. Where are we at kind of in the timeline of biologicals? Are we now on the leading edge versus the bleeding edge that it maybe was 10 or 20 years ago? And what do you think that looks like moving into the future?

Brad

Downing: Oh, no question. We're past the bleeding edge. We're on the leading edge of it right now. It's, you know, you look at a lot of different big companies that have invested millions and millions of dollars, and you look at just Bayer or Monsanto back when it was Bayer, the amount of money they invested in their biological business. You know, there's a huge amount of money being entered into this realm and this arena because if you look at it from a from a microbiologist standpoint and a plant pathologist standpoint, there's so much we're learning every day. And what I mean by we're on the leading edge now versus the bleeding edge is coming up with new technologies to test and understand what's going on in soil health, biology, and plant pathology.

But what we haven't got to the point now is where the conversation I actually had a couple weeks ago with a couple different people in the industry was talking about EC. In your soil. So electric conductivity. How many farmers know what their EC level is within their soil? I've never met one.

Shay

Foulk: Yeah, I sure don't.

Brad

Downing: Yeah, so what is electric conductivity, right? Well, how does it change within the plant? Do our plants, is a corn plant or a bean plant, are they sending hormonal signals to other plants right next to them based on things that are happening electrically conductive within the soil? And how do we change that, or what are we doing with other biologicals or other kind of plant or soil-based bacteria? How is that changing the hormonal response base because of EC and what the plants are communicating to each other? Now that sounds extremely far-fetched to a lot of people, but the more you start diving into this, the more it gets realistic really fast.

Shay

Foulk: I think I saw an advertisement for that one time. There was a movie, it was called Avatar, I think. But anyways, bad jokes aside, um, you know, let's, let's get back to biologicals real quick and talk about, you know, why are they important in, in today's markets. When you look at lower commodity prices, high stress situations, uh, you know, balance sheets and lending institutions that are, are getting tighter every single day, why is it important to invest like in something like biologicals as opposed to putting that capital elsewhere?

Brad

Downing: Sure. So the number one name of the game for all of us is yield. The more bushels we produce— matter, I mean, it does matter, but the more bushels we produce, that's how we get paid. The difference being is, you know, we'd all love to see $5, $6 corn again. So we're all gonna have to start doing— if we stay down in the next 5 to 7 years, if we stay down and suppress commodity prices in the, in the $3 range of corn and $8 a bushel beans or lower, we're going to have to do more with less. And how are we going to do that? Well, historically, the best thing that everybody's always done is just pour more fertilizer out there, right? Well, what we're seeing with a lot of samples and what we're seeing with a lot of guys' soil tests that we're looking at is you may pour more fertilizer out there, but ultimately speaking, are you holding on to it? Are you not? Are you utilizing it?

Is the plant utilizing it? How is it utilizing it? What we've come up with is there's a lot of people that have done a very good job on building their soils and maintaining where they're at. If you look at what is plant available, it's sometimes a little sketchy. So it depends on where you're at. I can't sit here and— this is not a cookie-cutter approach for everybody. It's very different and unique to everybody. But in the future, we're going to have to do more with less.. And if you look at what, from a chemistry standpoint, I mean realistically speaking, oil biologicals down, it's getting back to chemistry is what it really is. Okay, now there's biology, but there's the chemistry behind biologicals and why this is working.

So if you're a farm that understands chemistry, or if you've got somebody on your staff that understands chemistry, I would highly recommend you employ them to start diving into the biological industry. And working with people, whether it's us or anybody else, that understand and are learning as much as they can about how these things work. Because you will, in the future, start looking at it from a biological standpoint. We will be utilizing less fertilizer and maintaining the same or more yield. Because we will be able to utilize what's there more efficiently. And also, we're in the— We're in the phases right now, personally on our own farm, of looking at how much potassium chloride, potash, we're putting down in front of beans where we're not putting litter versus what we're doing foliar with potassium.

Because potassium acetate, 1 gallon of potassium acetate controls 2.5 pounds of potash. So if we're able to, it depends on what our recommendations and what our yield goals are. Are we at least now foliar, can we get more potassium to plant foliar than what we can apply potassium chloride in front of a bean crop? And can we do it more efficiently to get to the point where we want to be to produce more, you know, flower more seeds and have more per pod and what our weight is. So we're looking at that right now.

Shay

Foulk: Yeah, that's an interesting point. I think it's going to make a great transition into the next topic here. But any, any last thoughts on biologicals or anything that you're really excited about that you want to hit here for the listeners?

Brad

Downing: I love this industry, man. Everybody's like, man, this is just confusing. I don't want to deal with it. I'm like, Well, the big thing I can tell everybody is it's going to be a big, big deal in the future. Work with people that you trust or you are able to explain to you what's going on, or also vice versa, are willing to admit they don't know but they're trying to figure it out, because transparency in this business will be key.

Shay

Foulk: That's a great point. I appreciate the thought on that. So let's switch over, kind of do a 180 here and talk about profit management. And I shouldn't say 180 because it's really on the same line there, but you know, you made a comment there of how do we do more with less. And one thing that we see pretty consistently is when it comes into these difficult periods, when you have lower commodity prices, higher equipment costs, we have seen a lot of farmers try to cut back here in the last 6 to 8 years throughout the Midwest, throughout the Corn Belt. And what's really interesting is they're doing it because they don't want to write the check.

But when you talk about that return on investment, what you're actually getting back from the money that you're putting into the system, we actually see in a lot of cases that it's the extra money that needs to be spent on the right things in order to improve that bottom line and to improve the profit. So it's something to consider when it comes to not only biologicals, but when it comes to your nitrogen and fertilizer management, when it comes to your insurance levels of protection, there's a lot of areas there that farmers need to analyze specifically for their profit management. So I want to, I want to talk a little bit about that. You know, you have your hand in a lot of baskets, you got a lot going on even outside of the biologicals, and profit management is a really important thing.

So you can, can you talk a little bit about kind of your background, your experience with profit management, how that developed over time and what's been most helpful to you as you move forward.

Brad

Downing: Sure. Yeah, no problem. So going back to when I was farming and starting out on my own and working with our family as well and profit management, most everybody thought profit management was just your accounting, right? You were doing your accounting by cash or accrual basis and looking at that. And I'll say that's very important, no questions. From a P&L standpoint, understanding it. But it took it a step further when I met Chris Barron and started looking at Profit Manager and starting to think about our farm and a lot of the farms that I was advising kind of transitioning the mindset from a farm to a manufacturing company. So when I started thinking that we're a manufacturer company, we manufacture corn and soybeans or wheat or whatever else we produce, doesn't matter. We're a manufacturing company. Now, I'm just like everybody else.

I get excited about wanting to spend money on new fancy paint and iron. It's, it's bred into us as farmers. We love iron. But as I started transitioning more into that profit management and thinking more from a manufacturing side of things, I realized that, that being excited about that and having— whether you have new, new or old iron doesn't really matter. I'm looking at it from a pure simple fact is it's a tool to get to the profit side of things. Is it bringing us value and does it make sense to have that application or whatever we're doing from a management standpoint? And it could be from a time management, it doesn't matter. It all comes into profit and ROI. I had to think about it completely different because it's very hard to remove yourself from being excited about buying items. I think that's just all bred into us as farmers. We love sitting in that seat and doing that.

So that's one piece. The next piece that came into place was looking at from a record-keeping standpoint, knowing what my costs were to make every application, whether it be running a sprayer across the field, whether it be planting, tracking that to the best of the ability. I mean, we don't have new equipment by no way, shape, or form. We've got, you know, we got some newer equipment, but we're still running some stuff that's, you know, 7, 10 years old. And from our standpoint, I look at it going, I need to know if I'm going to make this pass. Or from a foliar standpoint, we've got some fields on soybeans we're making 4 passes across the field from our herbicide application post all the way to our foliar program at our fungicide. We've got 4 passes we're going across the field. That's a lot of money to be putting out there in product, but also on top of what my costs are.

Well, we're tracking that with the sprayer, so we know what every time our pass is going across the field. So we know when, how many bushels or how much ROI I need to produce to be able to get to that cost analysis. So it's extremely important, but then again, you can't improve what you don't measure.

Shay

Foulk: So that's a great point there too. You know, you can't improve what you don't measure and And there's so many different tools out there to do it. It doesn't need to be Profit Manager. There's lots of other great systems out there that are passed out at the extension level, at the university level, and then other, you know, for-profit organizations. But I think it's so crucial just to make sure that you have that accurate record keeping, you know, so that you, so that you can improve what you already have measured. And I love the point that you made there about farming being a manufacturing company, and I think that probably gives you a little bit of a different perspective to running the business, and there's probably a lot of synergy there between the business and the crop production side, I would imagine, right?

Brad

Downing: Oh, absolutely. And I'll be honest, from us having a— some may look at it from a wholesale-retail brand of what Cross Creek Ag Solutions is and what we've taken this company and made it— and continue to move it that direction. It's made us better on the farm from a record-keeping standpoint because I will tell you the biggest, hardest thing to do in the farm is discipline of keeping good records and the discipline of making sure that either it's all recorded right in your monitoring system or it's recorded on paper to where you can get it back to put in there. We all struggle with that. I'm no different than anybody else. Having a business that's more sales, manufacturing type oriented has made our farm that much better.

Shay

Foulk: No, that's awesome. So, you know, is there any other tools kind of as we wrap up this piece? Is there any other tools out there that you find extremely helpful in your business, whether it's on the accounting side, inventory management, marketing, really just anything that the listeners might get value out of?

Brad

Downing: Yeah. I mean, From a free or low-cost standpoint, there's a program owned by Beck's. It's Farm Server. It's a free subscription, I think, for guys that are buying seed. But I mean, it may be $600 a year for— or one-time only for a non-Beck customer. But the one thing I like about it, it really does a good job of keeping track of all— or I will say this, it accepts and is a good data management platform for storing data and also accepts from every color equipment. So I like that piece. Been a big fan of Climate in the past, and I'm not saying we're not now, but we're, we're really looking at that currently right now compared to moving to John Deere OpsCenter, because right now we're all green equipment and moving everything to OpsCenter because John Deere's OpsCenter right now looks to be very impressive where they're going and be able to have that data.

AC Profit Manager through Chris and Ag View Solutions is fantastic spreadsheet.— and it's a— I won't say simple, it's very complex, but it's very simple in its nature of if you have the data or you have the access to the data, getting it put in there and having it real-time on your hands anywhere you go on your laptop is worth something. Outside of that, I think it's just all a preference. I don't want to tell anybody that any program is right or wrong because it's not. It just depends on what your goals are and who you're working with. Can they help you achieve where you're going?

Shay

Foulk: Right. And I appreciate the feedback. You know, I, we're, we're of the same boat, uh, with Ag View Solutions. Don't necessarily encourage people one way or the other, but I think it's something that for whatever reason, a lot of people in the industry hold really close and tight to their chest on what they're using and why they're using it. Because almost every meeting we go into, we get questions on, well, is there a better accounting system out there? Or do I need to be looking at a, you know, different data management system? And so I think it's just good to, to have that perspective. On what else is out there.

Brad

Downing: So we just had today, actually, we had our agronomist here today that works with us directly, third party. We had another third party soil— he does all our soil sampling and our recommendations, along with a Farm Server rep, our DSM for our seed company, Beck's. And we had two other people here from the banking industry. We had everybody on the meeting day going through our entire acres of our farm. I think that's key, bringing every people together going through your operation and being very transparent with everybody on what you're trying to achieve, because it helps the banker to look at everybody else and say, oh, okay, this is why they're spending money on this.

Shay

Foulk: Yeah, and Chris has written about that a few times. And, you know, we did a podcast on that, or what— as that's almost part of your strategic resource team is looking at how do you include everybody in the operation that is part of this web that helps make the decisions and drive the business forward. So I think that's phenomenal, Brad.

Brad

Downing: Yep.

Shay

Foulk: So let's talk a little bit then too. That's a good transition to one of the last things I want to talk about with you, that, that third-party perspective. You know, you're part of one of our peer groups, and I just want to talk a little bit about, you know, how did the industry lead you to peer groups, and, and how do you see it as being beneficial for where you are in your operation right now?

Brad

Downing: Sure. Yeah. So in my career, when I worked for VEX and was in charge of our key account program for the whole pretty much the whole country there. We were working across basically, I don't know how many states it was, quite a few states. The big thing I saw working with farms that had transitioned more into that quote-unquote manufacturing mentality, they were all part of peer groups. Whether they were focus groups or whether they were actual, you know, 4 to 8 farms that were put together that necessarily don't compete in the same realm, but they're all across the country or all within a certain area. I just saw so many great things come out of it and so many ideas that were outside the box that was driving guys to be better at what they do, better ROI, but also quality of life sometimes was the biggest key component.

Two parts in that quality of life of they had somebody to talk to that might have already went through some of what they've already done so they could help them through it, but also just other, other, other people see the, how do I say this, the forest for the trees. Sometimes we're so involved in what we're doing, it's hard for us to step away and really look at whether it's a problem or something good. Being part of a peer group really allows both of those things to happen. So I think the peer group experience is for everybody, whether you think it's not or anybody listening to this call, if they think it's not or they think it may be, I can tell you it's for everybody. Just step out of your comfort zone and do it. I think it's huge, huge importance.

Shay

Foulk: Well, and I like how you said that too, of seeing the forest for the trees, because a lot of people look at those peer groups or the focus groups and they maybe sometimes feel as though, oh, I'm probably just seeing it through rose-colored lenses, it's probably not as great as it is. But, you know, what we found from just the value and the interactions that you get with the people, The quality of life is so huge because if you can go in, analyze an operation, analyze what they have going on, and then have that come back and turn and improve the quality of life, not only with the family members but the farm operation, you know, whether it's a working relationship between father, son, brothers, or even just business partners, we've really seen some phenomenal things come out of that.

So what's been your biggest takeaway, and whether it's something personal or just kind of as an overall view of the peer groups, what's kind of been the biggest takeaway in your peer group experience?

Brad

Downing: That I feel like we're getting more out of it than we're giving.

Shay

Foulk: Well, we haven't come to your operation yet though.

Brad

Downing: That's right. We hope to have everything solved before you guys get to us. Good luck. Yeah, no, I know it's going to be a complete mess and cluster by the time you get here to us. But, um, I said is the biggest thing is I've really taken a lot out of it and come home and Martha, my wife and I that run the business, you know, we go to our peer group meetings and we're evaluating and analyzing, you know, SWOT analysis from a standpoint of the business. But we're sitting down and writing notes to going, oh my gosh, we've got this same problem. We didn't even know it. Or, oh my gosh. Hey. We should be doing this, but we haven't even thought about that yet. And they've already, you know, they're dealing with our experiences. So I think we've taken away so much that we're trying to make changes here.

And in turn, trying to provide them maybe some of the things that we've either experienced or we're going to experience and how we're dealing with them. So that's my biggest takeaway is the relationships are key. I mean, we love our peer group and everybody in it. I can call any one of them right now and I think they'd do anything for us and likewise. But the bigger takeaway is that we've been able to really see a lot of things that we wouldn't normally get to see or think about our operation in ways that we normally wouldn't get to. That's really helped us expand.

Shay

Foulk: That's awesome. And I appreciate you sharing your experience on that. So, you know, I mean, that kind of wraps up the topic that we had in mind here today. Is there any final thought that you have kind of moving into the 2020 planning season, Brad?

Brad

Downing: Yeah, I mean, the big thing I look at and actually having a conversation with some customers and people we're working with that are new customers, don't be afraid. As commodity prices drop and we all look at our budgets, and I'm the same as anybody else right now, things are getting tight and thin. I'm being very, very cautious on where we're spending money, and I don't mean it from a standpoint of trying to save money. I'm pouring more money into the things that I know have a higher percentage of chance of getting ROIs or spending more money on things that can possibly add more to us versus doing the things that are quote unquote the things we've always done. Just because we've always done them doesn't mean we should always do them. So really, guys, we're only, you know, 30, 45, 60 days away from planning.

Across this country for the most part in the Midwest, really take a look here as you're fine-tuning your final preparation for planting. Take a look at where you're spending money and don't be afraid to really push the envelope on things that have a higher percentage chance of increasing ROI or yield than just saying, hey, this is what we've always done, so let's just continue to do it.

Shay

Foulk: And if you're waiting or thinking about doing biologic, don't wait until the last minute, right?

Brad

Downing: That is the problem in this industry right now. Everybody has a biological— it's kind of one of the last things everyone thinks about. And I'm really encouraging you guys. Yes, it helps us from a standpoint, but on another standpoint, you know, from where we're— what we're buying, what we're creating, a lot of these are live cultures and live components and live organisms that have been built and created and multiplied here in the last 30 days. So, you know, we have fresh, good products we're sending out to people. It's not stuff that's been sitting on the shelf for 2 or 3 years that's, you know, no longer— it's anaerobic and it's just dead bugs in there. We have live cultures and good products we're moving.

This is something that at the same time you're looking at your fertility program, you need to be looking at buying biologicals and working with people, you know, clear back into November or December and not waiting until, you know, end of February, March to start thinking about it and buying it. It just, it clogs up the supply chain way too much, and trying to get stuff to people in high volumes becomes a real challenge. So I would really encourage people be thinking about this, you know, farther in season or earlier in the season.

Shay

Foulk: Great. So Brad, where can listeners find you and your team?

Brad

Downing: Yeah, so easiest way you can look at us, other than my phone number— phone number 765-432-0475— call me anytime you want. Um, my email's brad@crosscreekag.com. Our information's on crosscreekag.com, and you can look me up on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter. Just look up Brad Downing. You'll find me in there. I need to— that's my next thing is what I'm not doing well is I need to get a Facebook business page just made for the company alone.

Shay

Foulk: There you go. We'll be looking for that. You know, Brad, thank you so much for your time today. You know, one of the reasons we wanted to reach out to you is just kind of the diversity and things that you have going on, you know, being the biologicals, the seed business, farming, and a million things in between, as well as, you know, profit management and the peer group. So we're just really glad and thankful to gain some of your perspective here today. And I appreciate you sharing that time with us.

Brad

Downing: Hey, great. Thank you guys. It's always fun and I always try to learn something and I appreciate the time. So anytime.

Shay

Foulk: Absolutely. And thank you everyone for listening. We will catch you next time on the Ag View Pitch.