Friday rewind: Dad's wisdom part II, the retirement years with Dean Fehl, Iowa farmer

Chris: Welcome everybody to another episode of the Ag View Pitch, and we are sitting here today with Dean Faile, who's my father-in-law, and also who we did a Dad's Wisdom with back in August 24th, 2019. I was able to corral Dean again here to have a conversation about, I guess we'll call it Dad's Wisdom Part 2: The Retirement Years. And so Dean, welcome. Glad to get you corralled and get you to sit down here. How's it going?

Dean

Fehl: Uh, very well, Chris. Thank you very much for another opportunity.

Chris: Yeah, well, thank you for the opportunity. You know, I, I mentioned this to you, what, a few days ago? I just kind of thought about it, and I'm like, you know, um, just watching you in retirement and, and how you manage your life, and you have two sons at home farming, Ben and Brant, and they're running the operation, and you You know, you come in and you help and, you know, you provide some good guidance and some input, you know, and do a really good job of being retired and enjoying life and having quality. And so I'm excited to have this conversation with you because we have a lot of producers that we work with that are in transition now. We have a lot of dads that are just, you know, kind of the three phases we talked about before we started the recording.

You know, it's the idea of retiring, And sometimes that needs to start, you know, way sooner than we think, maybe in your late 40s or 50s, or maybe even before that when you start thinking, you know, when do I want to retire? What's my timeline look like? That's the idea part, and then it's the implementation part, and then it's the living it part. And so what I want to get to with you is I want to walk through kind of some of your experiences when you started thinking about it and, and kind of through the implementation. And then finally, what I've been watching and what brought this all together was, you know, you've done a phenomenal job in retirement, yet you still come back, run a combine, run sprayer, help the boys, you know, and probably give input. Maybe sometimes they don't— input they don't want once in a while too.

Dean

Fehl: That's potential.

Chris: So, you know, so, so I, I'm excited to have this conversation because I think it'll be really beneficial for a lot of our listeners If you're a son listening to this and you think dad would benefit from listening to this, then definitely text this over to your dad. I guess that's our ask with the podcast too, is please share this with, with other farm operations, because a lot of operations, whether they like it or not, are going to go through transition, aren't they, Dean?

Dean

Fehl: That is very correct.

Chris: Yeah, transition is something that occurs whether we want to or whether we don't want to.

Dean

Fehl: That's That is very correct. Ready or not, here you go.

Chris: Yeah, exactly. So I guess, Dean, where I want to start with you is in the beginning part of, you know, I asked you before we started recording, I'm like, so when did you retire? And, you know, and you're like, well, that was 2015. That was 6 years ago already. And it— time flies because to me it was like, I didn't think it was that long ago, you know, you know, because we recorded the Dad's Wisdom Um, again, August 24th, 2019, and you were already well into it. But again, you know, watching you for the last 4 or 5 years be successful at that, um, wanted to have this conversation. So I guess with that said, um, when you think of the idea of it, what advice would you give the dads listening to this that are, you know, thinking, you know, well, I'm only 55, or I'm only 60, or I'm only 65, and they're loving what they do, right?

Because we talked about, you know, quality of life and all that stuff. And if they don't have hobbies, and we'll get to that later, you know, what advice would you give people as they're thinking of the idea of retirement?

Dean

Fehl: Well, I think, Chris, I would have to advise starting earlier than what you might think your retirement date may be. And of course, that date may be a moving target. And it probably is for most. But to start early, I think, is very important. Get professional help. Start with Chris and maybe their Ag View team, or some professional that has unbiased thoughts about where you're at or where you may be headed. It's fine to talk to family and friends, but you're not always going to get all the information maybe that they've learned because they don't care to share their personal experiences relevant to their retirement. And not to say you're not going to get some good advice, but I would definitely, definitely involve professionals.

Chris: Third party. Just, yeah. And we see that, you know, where a lot of times a son can tell a dad something or vice versa, and it kind of goes in one ear and out the other too, right?

Dean

Fehl: Exactly, exactly. And, and that's part of— a big part of the transition early on in, uh, the transition phases, as you're bringing sons, daughters, or a good friend into your operation. There's so much involved beyond teaching them how to plant corn. Or market grain. It has to be open architecture for everyone. You have to be willing to listen whether you're the senior partner or the junior partner. One of my goals in the transition was to hopefully not let the boys make big mistakes. We all make little ones at the speed of light.

Chris: Yeah, for sure.

Dean

Fehl: You know, and even at the last years of my work, I was still learning. You know, I didn't do everything perfect.

Chris: Yeah, well, most of us never make any mistakes in marketing or anything.

Dean

Fehl: It's— no, never. Uh, but, um, those are, you know, a few key items which could of course be expanded on, uh, for hours.

Chris: But one of them is culture too, right? Is the culture of the of the operation. Most of them are family, some of them aren't, but they're going to transition as well. And that culture that you set as the senior partner is going to get carried over to a large extent, right, to the, to the next generation.

Dean

Fehl: Well, and you would, you would hope so. Hopefully, if you've done your, done your due diligence, uh, in your lifestyle of your occupation You hope that you've done the right things and that culture will carry on to the next generation, right?

Chris: Right. So one of the things I want to talk about too is, you know, and, and I had said, hey, before you re-record this, listen to Ego, Insecurity, and Control podcast, you know, and we talked a little bit about that the other day. And, and after you had listened to that, you know, what do you think is probably the biggest hurdle because we see a lot of people that wait too long or feel like they waited too long to enter into that retirement thing. Do you think it does have something to do with the ego insecurity and control piece? Is there one piece that's bigger than another, or what's your thought there that, you know, if you could give advice to dads listening of, you know, having the idea and starting to work towards that's okay?

Dean

Fehl: Yeah, and I agree, but every scenario is so much different. Yes, there'll be similarities between Operation A, B, and C. But each one of those items, the ego, the insecurity, and the control— control doesn't always mean it's going to be my way or the highway. It may just mean This is what works, period, right? Has nothing to do with control, right? Um, and there again, there could be many examples for that. Uh, the ego thing and the insecurity, it's going to play hand in hand for, for all parties. There's going to be— I can't say that anyone is exempt from any one of these three items.

Chris: Gotcha. So The other piece of that is in the working through the idea or the thought of it, you talked about getting, you know, getting some professional help, third-party advice, and, you know, obviously that's an important piece. Also though, one of the things that we talked about is attention to detail or growth, some of those things that the exiting, eventually exiting partner is always been involved in the operation. The operation's always continued to grow. And when you start slowing down or going to go the other way, is there some emotional things that might be holding people back? Or was there anything like when you started thinking about, okay, I got to start getting this done, is there any emotional things that were holding you back?

Because, you know, you've done a good job, and, and pretty much all the listeners too, growing their businesses And that's kind of a little different psychological component, isn't it, when all of a sudden you're going to go a little different direction here now, right?

Dean

Fehl: Well, I was very fortunate in several ways when I started considering the transition, uh, for our sons to take over the operation. Number one, I was kind of mentally and physically ready to slow down, and that lended itself to growth for both of the boys. Um, I, and I think that was key. I think if had I not really been ready mentally, it would have been way more difficult. But I saw the need for, for my boys to expand. Uh, I saw a need for me to slow down. And so as a result, that made it easier for me. Now, it's not always going to be the case, obviously, for, for everyone. I felt no pressure from either of my sons to say, Dad, it's time you step aside. And I'm very thankful for that because that would have probably caused some issues.

Chris: Well, I was going to ask that too because some of the listeners are probably like, okay, I'm not quite ready, but I need to because I got a son coming back from college, or I've got, you know, in the economic position that some of these farms are in, they almost feel obligated to start to make a spot. Is there any advice or thoughts that you would warn people or say just be careful of this? You know, because the timing— if the time— you know, you're, you're describing a situation where the timing kind of fit, right?

Dean

Fehl: It was timing. Timing actually couldn't— I couldn't have asked for it to be any better, really.

Chris: Yeah. And, and sometimes what we see is is they're either on the early end or the late end. Not always is the timing quite that good. And so if they're on, if Dad's on the early end of stepping aside because there's more coming in and is trying to make space, that can create some conflict because Dad's still there wanting to call some shots on some stuff. And that starts to piss off the next generation a little bit, or they get frustrated 'cause it's like, well, I thought I was doing this and now Dad's telling me I gotta do that. Right. You know, any advice on, on the early end or the late end of that, or some things that the dads could do, or, or the sons for that matter?

Dean

Fehl: Well, I think, I think patience on everyone's part is, is key to that whole part of the transition. Um, I just, to, to restate what I said a moment ago, I just feel fortunate because timing was so correct in our scenario. The boys were working hard. I don't know how it could fit any better for the three of us. Yeah, it just, it just worked. We were fortunate we had landowners who understood we were in transition. They were willing to take the rented land that I had rented from those folks and were willing to pass it on. To my boys, which made life easy also.

Chris: Right, right.

Dean

Fehl: And to my knowledge, there was not one hiccup along that line. Yeah. But as far as being too early or too late, too early, I don't think is a possibility in transition. Too late, I think, is because then all of a sudden you're maybe forced into something that you don't want to do, that you don't want to do. And that can be for all involved, not just the senior partner.

Chris: Yeah, I think what I'm hearing from you is a little grace back and forth goes a long ways.

Dean

Fehl: It goes between— yes, it does—

Chris: father and son.

Dean

Fehl: That's correct.

Chris: Or mother and daughter, you know, or whoever, you know, as that transition occurs.

Dean

Fehl: Exactly.

Chris: Having some grace and some time and some patience with each other, I think that's really good advice. Um, we see that a lot of times where there's frustration, and it usually comes from un— unclear, clearly not clearly defining expectations. And so that's where I want to go now is work into the implementation. So we've kind of talked about the idea of it. Now the second phase of this is the implementation portion. Okay. And so one of the things that I— where I see conflict a lot of times in the midst of the transition when they're working on it and, and say they're partway through Dad has an expectation, the, you know, or mom or whoever, and the next generation has an expectation, and sometimes they don't clearly define that with each other, and then somebody's mad, right?

Dean

Fehl: That's, that's correct. Now, we've really had a great transition. Not to say every day has been perfect. There's, there's been a moment or two, and, you know, We didn't agree. We had to agree to disagree. But in general, I kind of have a philosophy in the back of my mind. I don't care what the job is like when it's done, as long as it's perfect. Yeah, right. And so I think as the boys transitioned, they knew I had high expectations. And probably unfortunately, I didn't verbalize a lot of those.

Chris: Or even document them.

Dean

Fehl: Or document.

Chris: Write some stuff down and say, here's—

Dean

Fehl: Yeah, but I think lead by example has been part of who I am. And the boys see that, you know, I've tried, I try to do things right. Doesn't always work out. Same, right? Same for anybody.

Chris: Right.

Dean

Fehl: But I feel as though, you know, doing things correctly, whatever that may be, is just huge.

Chris: How do you handle, you know, or how would you advise others to handle— you're in the implementation process, you made the comment to let them make little mistakes but not the big ones. How do you determine the difference between the little ones and the big ones? You know, because sometimes a little, you know, 3 or 4 little ones can be a big deal, right?

Dean

Fehl: And that is, that is very true. Yes, they can compound. Uh, you know, a big mistake, for example, maybe purchasing a piece of equipment that they just flat out can't afford. Maybe able to get financing for it, but it makes no sense. Or maybe to buy a parcel of land. I mean, I'm talking the big financial— the big ones, the big ones that could really come home to roost. Uh, I lived through the early '80s when the egg economy was not fun. Interest rates were off the charts, and you didn't very— didn't want to make very many mistakes during that. Now, fortunately, my sons weren't involved in that, but those— that's the type of thing that is always in the back of my mind. We're all going to make mistakes, but you got to avoid the big ones that are going to maybe take you down, for lack of a better term.

Chris: Yeah, the bank um, the, the bank decisions and the communication and understanding, not just the, the micro stuff in your own business, but it's also being able to look around at the bigger part of the world, right, of what's going on in the world.

Dean

Fehl: You need to see the macro picture also, right?

Chris: Right. Okay, so anything else on the implementation part? Again, I, I go back to the emotional part a lot because I think emotions drive communication, whether we like it or not, right? And so what I see happen a lot is the urge to come back and micromanage, even though when you think you're not, it's like, oh, this is really driving me nuts. They're doing this, they're doing that. You know, what would you tell somebody to say, you know, manage this, or is there a better way to communicate to that next generation Well, obviously communication is key whether you're farming or building John Deere tractors or whatever, but, uh, it's just basic.

Dean

Fehl: You have to talk about things, you know. You're not always going to agree, but you have to talk about it, you know. And in transitioning, um, specifically, it isn't just your sons coming into the operation, it's their wives. It's the child that's not directly involved keeping fairness. Maybe not today, but tomorrow, fairness will kick in. And those are all key elements that really need to be addressed. And as a result of that, I'm not sure how to define what I'm trying to say here. But it boils back to communication. We have to— everyone has to know what's on the next page or what's maybe going to be on the next page, what's coming.

Chris: Exactly. You brought something up I was going to get to and ask as well, but one of the things we see a lot of is in transition, you know, mom and dad or the senior entity, the senior partners are transitioning over to the next generation and And a lot of times it's in a family situation where you've got your actively engaged kids or the actively engaged participants and the non-actively engaged, right? And I see, you know, and you mentioned, you know, how do you keep that, you know, fair? And fair isn't equal and equal isn't fair either, right? Because a lot of times we see the aha moment when we sit down and have a conversation with a family and it's like, well, you know, we're going to split the land this, this way and this way and this way. And sometimes we got to remember the actively engaged ones probably need the land that the bends sit on, that the buildings sit on.

And, you know, so we got to be careful about how we put that together. But that kind of goes back to your, um, you know, your idea of having a third-party person in there or a professional that can kind of look and say, okay, did you think about this, or did you think about that? Having said that, is there anything that you would throw out there? Make sure you don't forget this, or make sure you think about that. You know, is there any—

Dean

Fehl: there's probably 100 things.

Chris: I kind of threw that question out of thin air.

Dean

Fehl: But yeah, no, and I— it's, you know, it's very legitimate question, Chris. But there again, I really can't pick one thing out of thin air. And I'll have to defer back to visit with professionals. That's what they're there for. They are unbiased. They've seen a lot more than you and your brother or uncle or cousin you could chat about all day long over a cup of coffee. Uh, they see and know and have the experience.

Chris: Yeah, and you can know too. I always call it the salt and pepper effect. Have you ever been sitting at the kitchen table and you're asking somebody to send you the— set you the salt and pepper, and it's right in front of you, and you don't know it. You don't see it because it's right in front of you. It's been there the whole time.

Dean

Fehl: Too obvious.

Chris: Yeah, and I think we see that a lot too, is, you know, sometimes we don't see what's right in front of us because it's been there all whole time.

Dean

Fehl: Sure. You know, it's, it's, it's taken for granted that it's just gonna be there.

Chris: Exactly. So, so that kind of covers, I think, most of the implementation piece. So we've kind of hit on the the idea of retirement. We've hit on some of the ideas, and if we think of something else, we can come back to implementation if we think of something else here in the conversation. But the last part I want to hit on is just living in retirement, okay? And, and that's what kind of preempted this from my, my side of it, coming up and saying, hey Dean, can we have this conversation? Because I've watched you live retirement really well. And, and by that, I don't mean that you're not productive still in the operation, because you are. Like I said, I've watched you go back and help the boys run the combine. You know, you're running a combine, you're running a sprayer, you're helping those guys do a lot of the things that they're doing on the farm.

And I've also watched them ask you for advice, you know, or run things by you. So you're like an advisor to the operation. It doesn't mean that they're going to do what you say. So, you know, and I can see the wheels turning there. They may ask and they may still do what they're going to do, but talk a little bit about living in retirement. What are you learning? What have you learned about yourself and what have you learned about the boys?

Dean

Fehl: Well, that is a very interesting topic. I do feel blessed in that I had developed some hobbies prior to retirement. My wife and I both enjoy fishing. We are blessed to have a property in Canada on a lake. Which we could share with family and friends. Prior to my final retirement, I built a small shop on the farm where I can get away from the house, have projects going.

Chris: Not drive your wife crazy, maybe.

Dean

Fehl: That's, yeah, you said it. And, you know, I could just do projects that may seem minor but still need to be done. Lawnmower maintenance, just things that I cannot hinder the boys in their shop. You know, that would interfere with their day-to-day work. We like to travel, and blessed to be able to do some of that over the years. Our health remains pretty good in general. And again, thankful for that. But the actual living the retirement, you have to, on a given day, maybe kind of force yourself to do something. You know, yeah, it may not involve your hobby, it may be just going to help a friend, you know, cut a tree or just something goofy. Yeah, but it's very important to stay active. We both do that.

And So with that said, you know, I think in your retirement planning, one thing that kind of hit me after I actually retired was you better have your finances in order because as inflation becomes greater, as time goes on, as of course we're right in the middle of a huge inflationary period right now. You better have enough money to do what you were doing prior to retirement, right? Because not, not only the inflationary thing, but now you have more time to spend money or to travel, right?

Chris: And that's where the, the financial planner comes in, you know. We're not a financial planner, but we recommend one of the very first things you need to do is figure out what's your cost of living and what makes you comfortable now, and then factor inflation into that equation and assume you're going to live to 100 years old because everybody's living longer. It's not 80 anymore, it's probably 100.

Dean

Fehl: Exactly. So that's just one item that, you know, it really is clear back to the pre-retirement, but yet it's very, very relevant in retirement.

Chris: Right. So, um, again, just to, to hit also on, on the living it part, um, you know, what's your thought for, or what some of the things you could tell some of these guys? Because there's a lot of, a lot of dads here listening probably that, you know, well, that's great, you had, you have some hobbies, you know, you can fish and you've got a cabin and this and that. My hobby is working. My hobby is being on the farm and just working and, and farming. Any, any response to that or anything to help some of those guys? Or, man, and maybe that's okay. It just, you know, at some point though, you can't do everything all the time and be everything to everything either.

Dean

Fehl: That's, that's— I find difficult because I, I do feel fortunate in that I had developed some hobbies that, you know, takes up my day. And for those who don't, I would maybe advise try to find something.

Chris: Start looking now.

Dean

Fehl: Start looking. You know, maybe you've had something in the back of your mind that you always thought would be fun to do. Well, stick your foot out there and try it, right? You have to have something to do. You can't just sit in your duff all day long, right?

Chris: Doesn't fly. Well, and, and I would say too, you know, what we've seen is those who have retired, in my experience over the years, and when I helped with the seed business, and we would watch some operations, you know, the, the dad would retire and he'd last about 3 years and he's gone. Sure. And, you know, you wonder how much of that is emotional, how much of that is, you know, the connectivity to the quote-unquote work as opposed to quote-unquote life. Correct. Right. Because, you know, we're— we, we, you know, I think we still got to define why we work, you know, and what's, you know, what's our why.

Dean

Fehl: Right, you know. Exactly.

Chris: Yeah. And I think that's one thing that sometimes we don't do the best job of as farmers, a lot of us.

Dean

Fehl: Yeah, I agree. You know, obviously number one, we had to make a living so we could feed the family, but, uh, but then it becomes more than that as you get a little older and, and you're financially more secure, hopefully. Um, but the work thing, there's nothing wrong with good work ethic, but when you get to be a little older, there are other things than work.

Chris: Yeah, and it can make work a little bit more fun too. I would imagine it's more fun to show up and run the combine when you feel like it. And if you're tired and you want to go home, you can say it's kind of like having grandkids, right? The combine, you can, you can, when you're ready to run it, you can go run it. If you want to go home, you go home.

Dean

Fehl: Yeah, exactly. And I, I do feel blessed that the boys will involve me in allowing me to, to continue to help spring and fall and, you know, the odd job in between. So with that said, um, just plan and communicate.

Chris: Awesome. Well, I think that kind of wraps— I'm trying to think if there's anything I didn't ask or anything that, that you would recommend or something, an area that I didn't bring up for producers to think about in the midst of transition.

Dean

Fehl: I, I think you've done a good job of hitting the high spots, Chris. As you know, you've done this long enough to know that there are many key issues that come up in conversation during transition, a lot of which we can't address today just for the time constraint. But, but no, I think, I think you've done a really good job of hitting the high spots in today's conversation.

Chris: Sounds good. Well, hey Dean, I really appreciate your time, and I guarantee you A lot of the people that are listening to this will get a ton of value out of it, especially if they're in the midst of one of the three phases of either thinking about the transition and knowing that they need to be working on it, or, or, you know, if they're in the middle of it, they're in the implementation phase, they'll get a lot out of it. Or if they're, they're living it like you are, and you're a great role model. And thank you for being here. Really appreciate it.

Dean

Fehl: Oh, well, thank you, Chris. Best wishes to all involved.

Chris: All right. Thanks a lot. And again, Everybody, um, back to the Dad's Wisdom thing too. If you've got somebody that you think would be great to be on Dad's Wisdom, please reach out, let us know. We'd like to have those conversations, and we really appreciate you listening, and we will catch you again next time on the Ag View Pitch. Thank you for listening to another Dad's Wisdom episode brought to you by the Ag View Pitch. We believe that sharing these stories, experiences, and wisdom is crucial to improving our businesses and learning from others. If you have someone that would be good for a Dad's Wisdom, please email us at cbarron@agviewsolutions.com.