Dad's wisdom with Ken Root

Chris

Barron: And it all comes down to this. Two on, two out, bottom of the ninth. The Farmers lead by one. Full count, here comes the play at the plate, and it's the Ag View Pitch! Welcome everybody to another episode of the Ag View Pitch, and we are excited to have a special guest with us for Dad's Wisdom, and our special guest is Ken Root. And I know a lot of you are going to know Ken and are going to recognize his voice right away. And so without any further ado, Ken, go ahead and please introduce yourself, and we'll get started on Dad's Wisdom, and we're going to try to pull a bunch of wisdom out of you here. So give us a quick little introduction.

Ken

Root: Well, Chris, that could be one of the great challenges of all times to get any wisdom out of me, but you'll certainly be able to get a lot of words out of me. I'm a farm broadcaster from beginning in the 1970s. I'm a farm boy from Oklahoma. I started as a vocational agriculture teacher in 1972 in a little town in western Oklahoma. I worked there a couple of years and then from that I moved into farming. I moved into an operation which was a big television radio operation in Oklahoma City. I never dreamed I'd be able to work for '44, and that really gave me the chance to spread my wings and try to fly in this communication business. And I continued through that for the next 46 years, retiring only in January of this year. And I now live in Florida in the winter and in Guttenberg, Iowa in the summer.

And, uh, I was, as my times in Iowa since 2005, at WHO and WMT, and then along with two partners we started the Iowa Agribusiness Radio Network, and we have run that and it is still going strong at this time. So it's been quite a delightful career I've had. I've traveled all over the world. I have reported on agriculture. That has been my passion. And now I sit here kind of in the bleachers, and I look back and marvel at how much change has occurred in my lifetime.

Chris

Barron: Well, and that's great to get that introduction, and that's exactly kind of what, what we want to do. And we're going to get to that in a minute as far as, you know, some of the changes and how, how things have evolved with technology and just all of the things that you've seen. You know, you talk about 1972, you think about 1972 to now, and just the amount of changes are massive. Before we get into that though, talk a little bit about your family, about, you know, you talked about being a farm boy in Oklahoma. Talk a little bit about your family, a little bit about, you know, how things evolved from there and and, uh, and your existing family as well.

Ken

Root: Well, I was fortunate enough to be born the last child of Depression-era parents. My father was born in 1907. Incidentally, my grandfather was born in West Union, Iowa in 1859. And so the spread of my family, of my grandfather being 48 when my father was born, my father being 42 when I was born, and now I'm sitting here at 71, goes back a long, long way in just 3 generations.

Chris

Barron: Wow.

Ken

Root: But the timing of my family has been an unfortunate situation always, because my parents married in 1929, just ahead of the Depression, the stock market crash of that year, and they were sharecroppers in Oklahoma in a land that most people only know as the Dust Bowl, and it had one of the most disastrous environmental catastrophes in history during that decade due to plowing the ground inappropriately, drought, rain at the wrong time. And the farm I grew up on in Oklahoma was just holding the world together, as my mother said. And so my parents scratched out a living, uh, literally up until they were about 65 years old. But they managed to get a couple of crops to grow at that time. They were called gas wells.

Chris

Barron: Mm.

Ken

Root: And as a result of what was under the ground, way deeper than we farmed, they were able to make enough money to live reasonably well for the rest of their lives. And My mother died when she was 84. My dad died when he was 92. They both talked a great deal about their lives and about the lives of their parents. And because I've been a person that has always absorbed this sort of thing, I feel like I can tell you a lot of things and how they fit together going all the way back to the beginning of the 20th century, if not before. That could be a liability, but I try to make it an asset.

Chris

Barron: Well, that's interesting. So enlighten us on the pieces that you think that would be beneficial from that wisdom perspective.

Ken

Root: I don't know that anything of the past truly is wisdom, but it's information that gives you a greater chance of understanding what has happened and projecting what will happen. But we will never be able to project the future in agriculture accurately. We can look at it, we can try it, but it's always going to be challenging because there are so many factors. It's literally like the weather.

Chris

Barron: Right.

Ken

Root: So I think that the key is to draw from the moral base that people have in rural America, draw from the business sense that they have accumulated in their lives, draw from the work ethic of their own lives and that of the people around them, and then aim this in a logical fashion that's a little broader than I think most farmers look at their operations today, because we're in a worldwide market. So I say you should, you should observe things globally, but you should act locally.

Chris

Barron: Interesting. So, um, I want to back up still yet again for another minute, talk a little bit about your family. Tell us, um, you got kids, um, tell us a little bit about family quick too.

Ken

Root: Yeah, well, I'm the fourth of four of my family, uh, so we have a generational mismatch to where I have a nephew who's 4 years younger than me, and he is still living in Oklahoma, and He's now retirement age, but in a tough area of agriculture, but he made a good life of it as a propane dealer, knowing that you had to get outside agriculture when there just wasn't enough land to be able to accumulate it to make a livelihood. For my wife and I, we married in 1973, and divorced in 2010, and have 2 children. My daughter Andrea is now in her mid-40s. She has twins that are 14 and an 8-year-old. And 2 years ago my son died as a 40-year-old alcoholic.

Chris

Barron: Hmm.

Ken

Root: And I married 6 years ago to Jane Ertl from Dyersville, and second marriage for her as well. She has two sons who are in their 30s, wonderful young men. And so on we go in our lives. So I have not left the legacy that I might have hoped, but I have great hope for these three grandchildren of mine and Jane's sons and whatever happens in their lives.

Chris

Barron: Well, that's, that's interesting. I want to also back up a little bit and tell the story of Just a few, you know, we're in, in the early part of December of 2020 right now, so depending when you're listening to this, but I was in Florida with my wife, my second wife, and we have a blended family as well. So Alyssa and I are sitting there eating dinner in Florida in an outside restaurant by the beach on a little 3-day getaway, and I'm sitting there eating with her and I heard this voice talking in the behind me. And I was looking at Alyssa and I'm like, you know, I know that voice. And she's— and she's like, okay. And I said, well, that's Ken Root. And she's like, no, what do you mean? And I said, well, I can tell by his voice. And she said, well, you didn't even look. And I said, well, I don't need to look. I can hear him. And then you spoke some more.

And I'm like, yeah, I guarantee you that's him. Well, now she's looking up your picture on her phone and she's like, well, I don't know if that's him or not. And I said, I guarantee you it's him. I said, when we get done eating I'm going to go visit with him. And so I just wanted to let the listeners know that that's how, how we met, just, you know, a few weeks ago, just by happenstance. And how, you know, it's interesting how things kind of come around, things you don't expect and opportunities that come your way. With that said, you know, one thing I want to ask you with a um, with your family and, you know, and everybody's family that's listening to this, from a dad's perspective and with Dad's Wisdom, is, you know, as a parent, um, what advice do you give parents?

You know, so like a lot of the clients that we work with, a lot of people that's gonna be listening to this have a lot of young kids. Um, the economic situation, agriculture is up and down, it creates a lot of stress, there's a lot of labor issues, there's a lot of other economic issues that create stressors and create things. Is there any advice that you would give to parents that might be useful from a wisdom perspective that you've gained over the years?

Ken

Root: Well, my quick answer is probably not, but my real answer would be that it depends on what situation you have set up. In whether or not you have opportunities for them on the farm or whether you don't.

Chris

Barron: Mm-hmm. Right.

Ken

Root: And whether you consider success for your children to be on the farm with you or to have a life somewhere else. I spent a number of years with a psychologist, Dr. Val Farmer, who was on AgriTalk with me every Monday from 1994 to 2001. And we got into a number of discussions about being able to be the next generation in agriculture and whether or not your parents really wanted you to come back to the farm, whether you wanted to come back to the farm, if that's where you're going with this, and whether or not there's other things that call you and that you would consider yourself more successful in doing those. You know, I think, Chris, it's a fact that not everybody is going to be able to come back to the farm. Most everybody is going to have to leave the farm.

I mean, even the Amish today in those areas that have sizable populations, about 80% of them don't farm because there simply is not enough room to do so. So you've got to have a distilled-down group to be able to truly come back to agriculture. And then, of course, more with Dr. Farmer, who you bring back with you, your mate, makes a huge difference in your future success. And the relationship that you have with 3 of you—son, mother, father—with daughter-in-law outside that, or daughter, son-in-law outside that, can also be extremely complex. So you are setting yourself up for major challenges, but those are called life. So you just have to wade into this. I do think though that any family that doesn't emphasize education is setting the next generation up for failure. You have got to get an education.

I don't mean you have to be an A student like that young lady who was sitting next to me when we spoke in Florida. She was the outstanding woman graduate at Oklahoma State University in 1976. She went to work for me in 1978. Her husband traveled with me, his father traveled with me as well. We went to the Soviet Union. But you have to be very attuned to getting yourself prepared to step into a role of responsibility. And I am so hopeful for millennials that they become the responsible generation that takes over for the boomer generation. But again, it's individual, it's family, and it's situation that'll make that happen.

Chris

Barron: Yeah, that's all really, really good advice and wisdom. And I think, well, that's one of the things that we see a lot with our clients that we work with in transition and collaboration. And, you know, you have a multi-generational operation, you have kids in the operation that are actively engaged. You can have some kids that are not actively engaged, and then you blend in spouses and age differences.

And then in the absence of the education, like you talk about, and/or what we look for is, is the idea of a longer-term strategic plan with decision rights and establishing, you know, family governance and farm business governance, which are kind of two different things because, you know, To make a business successful, just because your last name is the same as the original start of the farm doesn't necessarily mean that that is your right to be there if they're either— number one, is not a fit, or number two, there's not a spot or a role that is applicable for the situation that gives quality synergy to both the individual and to the business. Any comments on that?

Ken

Root: No, you're absolutely right with that. And you have to have blended personalities to be able to make this work. And farm families are no different than any other families in the issues that they face, compounded by the fact that you're never anonymous in rural America. So you have to be in the public eye all the time, and if you're larger in agriculture, you're going to get people who pick at you simply because they think that you have a better life than they have, and that can cause you difficulty within your home community. But you have a lot of people who are up to the challenge of being able to be productive in agriculture. There's no doubt about it.

Ranging from those people who are well-schooled, PhD level if you will, in animal agriculture all the way through, through those that are the same in agronomic endeavors, because it's a very complex business and it's getting more complex all the time. I think the thing you want to guard against is what percentage of your future you put in the hands of somebody else, and that is to me one thing that you can be drawn to on the short term, such as growing livestock for other people, but realize that you are then tagged to them in the future. And you hope that's a good future, but you don't know that for sure. So, if you don't set your own course, somebody will set it for you. And people make a lot of money off of those who produce raw materials. And quite frankly, farmers are the producers of the raw materials. That go on to make most of their value after they leave your hands.

Chris

Barron: Interesting. So one of the things you brought up was on just the importance of the education and that kind of stuff. So a question I have for you, and some perspective I'm asking for, I guess, is around the idea of technology and how rapid things are changing. You know, you can educate yourself in one area and then almost become obsolete relatively quickly, you know, as these things begin to change from one area to another. I mean, we saw how COVID, for example, impact the entire society and specifically agriculture, you know, was dinged with it. But then, you know, there was some government aid and we'll get on the government aid side of things here in a minute. But as technology changes, What, what wisdom do you have for moving forward, making decisions, figuring out, you know, where do we educate ourselves, what do we pay attention to? Because the education never stops.

It's something that we constantly need to be working on and focusing on. I always tell our clients, you know, we spend so much time working in the business, we've got to ask ourselves, how much time do we spend working on the business? Because that's where we make our money, is, is that strategic planning, is that focused on the future. And so I'd like to have you touch on that for a minute as well.

Ken

Root: Well, I think that the reality is that no major trend in agriculture is going to change as long as farmers continue to adopt technology. Um, and this is nothing new. This is something you can go back to the 20th century first half or before that and follow it through because farming is really on a scale and a productivity and a cost basis that you're trying to drive down your cost and you're trying to increase your productivity, keep your quality at an acceptable level and move ahead. So I think that you have to accept that you need technologies but you don't need to go broke trying to figure out how to implement those technologies within your system. And in getting a technology up and running, it's not always easy. I recall watching global positioning go in in the mid-'90s.

I had a NASA scientist who— strange story, but he went with me to Indiana as this world-class agronomist tried to talk a farmer into letting him shove a huge computer under the seat of his cab, seat of his combine cab, and then start tracking with a Dickey-John monitor so that you could get yield and you could get geolocation and you could come up with a grid pattern so that you could actually see what your yield was every square meter of the field. And it was incredibly complicated. And getting a farmer to sit there and wait while you got everything rigged while it was getting ready to rain was very challenging, to say the least. But on we went. And it wasn't very long until people realized the value of that output. And so it was worth the effort of the input. And now GPS is common on everything. Autosteer is common.

We do a better job of everything we do because we incorporate these technologies. But once you bring new ones on, it's harder and harder to be able to keep up with all of them without sophisticated knowledge. So I think that you just have to weigh these things. I think the time that farm families spend around a table talking about the realities of what they their goals are is as valuable as anything you do. And I see some families who do it incredibly well. I mean, regular scheduled meetings that they go through lots of things and people have an agenda that they follow. And others that they just talk about it in random ways and they talk and talk until they come out with a consensus and then they leave. And in others they fight, and sometimes people leave. I think all those things are important because you cannot stand still. If you stand still, you go backward.

Chris

Barron: Yeah, I like your comment on the GPS. I lived that firsthand. I remember when we were first starting to come out with that stuff, and the second something didn't work, you turned it off and you put the marker down and you went driving across the field. And now today we strip-till and do some pretty, pretty precise things with seeding and different things. And so when the technology is not working, that halts everything, and you don't even think twice about it now. You just, you know, we got to get this technology working or we can't go, you know. And how things change and how the technology impacts our decision-making, and like you said, the efficiency and the quality of what we do, both from an environmental standpoint and and everything.

And, and, and so what that leads me to, by mentioning the environmental side of things, and that's connected to government regulations and the farm program, I'd like you to just spend a minute from your perspective, again from Dad's wisdom, of what you've seen over the years with the farm program and with government. You can call it intervention or you can call it assistance, whichever you want to call it, I guess. And give us some perspective on where you think that that might be going and kind of from a historical perspective how that fits.

Ken

Root: Well, it's my contention that farmers will always be led toward adopting the programs the government wants them to do as long as they get paid to do so or they feel the path of least resistance is to go that direction. In other words, all through the years in the allotment programs and in many other things and in conservation compliance, farmers would say, well, I don't really like it, but I'm afraid not to be in it because if I'm not in it, I won't get the benefits that other farmers get, and it could be the difference in me staying in business and going out of business. And then you have some people who say, I'm never going to do anything that the government says I should do because it's the wrong thing, or it'll be my decision and not theirs. And then you look at how many of those people are still in business and you answer your own question of which way you should have gone.

But I think now we are in a new era of this, that climate change is going to be the reason for the government offering you programs that may not make a lot of sense at the beginning. But over time, like the evolution of the farm bills, they began to crystallize and come to a point of being much more logical and accurate in what they do. Let's take the Conservation Reserve, for example. How many acres should be in the Conservation Reserve? Well, that was way high as a goal early, then it went down, then it came back, and now it's pretty much stabilized. And what land goes into the Conservation Reserve at one time was whole farms and now is environmentally sensitive land. I think the same thing will happen, but I don't know how long it'll take and even what it will be. But it'll be carbon sequestration or carbon capture, I think.

And it will also potentially be penalties for things that you do that are pollution. And pollution could be manure. So there are so many things ahead that are going to be driven by science and politics in the next few years that I almost want to buy a ticket to be able to watch it.

Chris

Barron: It's definitely going to be interesting. And you brought up the politics word, and I think that's probably going to be real interesting with how that feeds into the farm bill. And one of the things that I always think about get your quick perspective on this too, is just the risk that is associated with so many of us in production agriculture. Our margins are extremely tight, and, you know, and it's that way in every industry.

So I don't, you know, I'm not saying as farmers, you know, we're special, but on the same token, you look at food security, you look at kind of the crop insurance side of things, and to keep agriculture productive, and you look at the the support that the crop insurance industry gets and where our insurance premiums are, that always appears to me when I look at cost of production with our clients as being the highest or best— see how I want to say this— the best quality purchase you can buy. It's the highest value purchase in your cost production. So when we look at that What's your, what's your thought on the risk management side of things?

Ken

Root: Well, I think risk management is very much key because agriculture only has so many things it can control. You can't control the weather, you can't control the world markets, you can't control who's in the White House, you can't control the whims of an urban-related Congress. And so you have to face the fact that disaster programs, which were what we had before we had crop insurance themselves were a disaster because they only passed out money in years that they hoped farmers would vote for them after they got it. Now the crop insurance program is a good deal for farmers because I believe it's 62 cents— Correct. —of every dollar that goes into premiums comes from the government. So only 38 cents comes from the farmer. But the farmer also, from that, produces a large quality— quantity of a quality crop, many of them that are insured across the country.

And that benefits this country because we never have food as an issue politically. We always have plenty. We have an export surplus that gives us a balance of trade that makes us better merchants in the world. And so there's many, many positive things to farmers producing desirable crops in large quantities. But when you come back to the farm, you've got to be able to stay in business while you do that, and you cannot produce below the cost of production. I looked that up. You can't do that long term. You'll go broke. Yeah, it doesn't work. And one other thing about farmers is that and they're like anyone else. Once you receive a subsidy, it becomes an entitlement, and you have to realize that those things are given to you for the purposes of those who gave them to you, not necessarily to benefit you.

So don't think that you are so valuable to the government that no matter what you do, they're going to keep you in business, because you can look around you and see that's not true.

Chris

Barron: Great, great perspective and comments. Appreciate that. So as we get towards the end, kind of get towards wrapping things up, I'd like to go back to the human side of this for a minute and just ask you a question. It's a perspective that I, I throw out a lot with our clients when we first meet with them. I ask them, you know, define growth. You know, what does growth mean for your operation? And we'll go around the table and if it's a multi, multiple generation operation, you get a lot of different perspectives. And one of the ones that always kind of comes back that I think is very important, it usually comes from the more mature generation, is the growth of family and the growth of our relationships and those kind of things. And, you know, is growth defined as more acres? Is it defined as more milk production?

Is it defined, defined as, you know, more head of cattle or whatever it is, or, you know, or is it profitability? And for everybody, it's slightly something different. I'd like to ask you, what is your perspective on growth as you communicate here to some of the, the young farmer listeners that are got a lot of years of production ahead of them? What would your advice be in terms of defining growth to them, and what things should they probably be focused on as they think through that?

Ken

Root: Well, in my lifetime, I have seen farms go from a production unit of 80 acres to thousands and thousands of acres. And there used to be a definition of a family farm that it was 12 sows, 12 cows, and 100 chickens. And the unreasonable nature of that is equal today to what it was at that time. But also the USDA's definition of a farm, you know, that you sell $1,000 worth of agricultural products, is equally ludicrous. So you wind up realizing that it's up to you in your business to be able to make that a profitable business that on the other side of it is a good life. You know, I think that's the key. You have to make a profitable business to have a good life. You can't have it the other way around. So I think that in the next generation, their values are different, good or bad. We have evolved.

And what you and I, Chris, consider to be the greatest strengths of us are probably, as soon as they get a chance to say it without offending us, we'll realize that the next generation doesn't necessarily agree with that. But they have to continue to be profitable and they have to continue to be honorable. And I think in rural America we have the base and the core of truly morality of this country. I think it comes from farms. I think it comes from small family businesses. And I think that that base is key to keeping our country with its compass pointed the right direction and heading the right way. But it will be much more complex for the next generation. I'm glad I'm not doing it. I believe that they will find that they're going to be farming for Whole Foods type of buyers. They're going to be farming for those type of people around the world.

But they're also going to be necessary for the industrial side of agriculture to increase because truly we are a huge industry and we're a high-tech industry and it's not here only. It's in Brazil, uh, it's in Eastern Europe, it's especially almost equivalent to us in Western Europe and some other areas. So we are competing with farmers around the world if we're going to produce commodities. So, the question is whether you stay in a commodity base or whether you start specializing. And also, your income streams. I think that a farm that says, you know, "We're going to make all our money from this farm," the people on that farm with the skills they have may be able to bring in a whole lot more net income from other jobs than from farming. But yet farming still can be the base of their lives.

They can raise their children in the environment that you and I believe is an awfully good one, and they can head forward into their future with more control of their lives than we have today.

Chris

Barron: Yep, interesting. No, that's, that's all good perspective as well. And I think your last comment there is important because we see that as well from a financial perspective, as a lot of the farm operations You know, you got to be careful with diversification. You want to— don't want to reach too far out for too many shiny things or ways of making money. But on the same token, some diversification definitely is, uh, is a valuable aspect to any business. So the last question I have for you is, is as we wrap up here, is just, is there any life lessons that you've lived through, experienced, or anything that you say, you know, I wish, you know, I wish I could educate people on this, or this is something that I learned during the course of my life that is something that is worthwhile sharing, and anything that you'd like to touch on there?

Ken

Root: Well, it's hard to be able to give information to future generations that's as relevant to them as it is to you. But I would say that you need to realize in agriculture that most farms are narrowly focused production units and that marketing and promotion are not the prime traits of many farmers. Farmers make age-related decisions because the average age of the farmer will continue to be up in the high 50s, 60s, maybe even above that as time goes on. And that farmers are on a roller coaster ride of supply and demand. Good times often cause bad times. And your decision-making is so difficult because if you make what is considered to you to be a good business decision and everybody else makes the same decision, it turns into a bad decision because it's usually oversupply. You dump too much on the market and you don't have control of the sale of that commodity.

Um, and I think that, uh, technology is going to continue to be a major, uh, driver of change in agriculture, but I also think that politics is going to play a role. And we still have a divide between urban and rural. And I would just tell you that in the next 4 years, I think it'll be most interesting to watch this new administration. I mean, there is a chance that the next Secretary of Agriculture could be a Black woman from urban Cleveland. Now, don't sell Marcia Fudge short. I have interviewed her several times and she is an extremely smart lady. But she is on that Ag Committee now, has been for many years, for only one reason, and that's the food nutrition side of it. Well, most people that's driven our ag politics have been from the production side. We've never had politics really in my professional life in agriculture that were party related.

They were North versus South rather than Republican versus Democrat. And we have a time now that we could well see an urban population calling the shots in agriculture directly. In the programs that are offered to farmers, of which you and I have talked, that farmers will go along with just because they can't afford not to. Stand by. It should be, as I said, you know, I don't know what the price of these tickets is going to be to watch these next 4 years, but I think I'm willing to pay it.

Chris

Barron: They may be expensive for some of us. I don't know. We'll see. But hey, Ken, this has been a great conversation. I really appreciate it, and I think if you're okay with it, I'd like to follow up with you in a couple of more discussions, probably not a Dad's Wisdom as much, but we brought up a couple of key topics that you have a lot of history and experience in, both on the political side, on the farm program side, and I think a little bit on the production efficiency side and some of those things too. So if that's something you're willing to do. I'd sure love to have you back again another time for that, if that's good for you.

Ken

Root: Well, Chris, it's always a pleasure to talk to you, and as you can tell, I love to talk, and I love to look at all these things that I have seen, and I like to connect the dots on them. So let's see how it goes from this point forward, and if anybody responds back to you with death threats or other things about having me on.

Chris

Barron: Yeah, well, I'm not too worried about that, so hey.

Ken

Root: Well, there's Chip Flory, you know. Chip Flory is— my funny story of Chip Flory is that he and I live in the same place in Iowa in the summer near Guttenberg. And so a couple of farmers, you know, were around us and they knew both of us. And one of these farmers at a little campfire one night, he said, oh my God, 'Ken, Chip Florey's here.' And I said, 'Which one is he?' And he said, 'You don't know?' And I said, 'I have known Chip for almost 20 years, but only on the radio. I have no idea what he looks like.' So it is bizarre with us, just like the voice that you had of me in the narrowness of our personal relationship, but the breadth of our knowledge of each other. Yeah. Yeah. It just—

Chris

Barron: that's like I said, it's just funny how that works. And back to that, to that story, it is funny watching my, my wife's like, how do you know who that is? I said, I know his voice. And so kind of the same with Chip. And Chip's a good guy too. So we'll have to— maybe what we'll have to do sometime is get all three of us on here and we can get all kinds of wisdom.

Ken

Root: So yeah, yeah, you can call it wisdom. I think it may take a different tone, but it could. It's, it's, it's been a joy. Yeah, it could.

Chris

Barron: So, hey, Again, thank you very much, Ken. Really appreciate it. Really appreciate your perspective. I think it's excellent, and we'll have you back again. And we'd like to thank everybody for listening again on the Dad's Wisdom discussion. If you have a dad or somebody out there that you think can provide wisdom and bring some good content to us, whether you're a client or not, please reach out to us, and it'd be fun to have a conversation and continue to gain some wisdom and perspective from, from those that have lived through some things that some of us still yet have to live through. And so again, Ken, thank you very much. Thank you. You bet. And thanks everybody for listening. We'll catch you next time on the Ag View Pitch.