About This Episode
A listener's question started this series, and sleep is the first of five topics, ahead of exercise, eating, mental escapism and protective equipment. The problem both hosts keep coming back to is shutting the mind off. Chris unwinds with 15 or 20 minutes of television, then goes to bed and is out in five minutes, and he keeps a notebook and pen on the nightstand so a middle-of-the-night thought can be written down instead of chewed on. Shay counts back from 100 or takes 15 to 20 slow breaths.
Environment gets the same attention. Chris runs a fan every night and plays a fan sound on his phone in hotels so the room matches home. Light is the other lever: research shows the body registers even a small light you cannot consciously see, which argues for making the room dark rather than assuming you sleep through it. Screens come up too. Shay and his wife keep the television out of the bedroom entirely, and Chris knows he sleeps worse in a hotel room with the set left on.
The hours matter more than most farmers admit. Teenagers need about 10, adults 18 to 60 need more than seven on average, and the number climbs again past 60. Chris is 53, needs eight, can run on four, and refuses to feel guilty about sleeping until eight when he needs the extra hour. Shay sleeps best in 90-minute blocks and finds he needs to be both physically and mentally tired to drop off. The closing point: farmers grease every machine on the place and neglect the one body they have.
“We don't sometimes recognize that the most important piece of equipment we have on the farm is our body.”
— Chris Barron
Key Takeaways
Build a shutdown ritual. Chris uses 15 to 20 minutes of TV before bed; Shay counts down from 100 or takes 15 to 20 slow breaths in through the nose and out through the mouth.
Keep a notebook and pen on the nightstand. Writing down the two or three things you woke up worrying about lets you go back to sleep instead of holding them.
Ask whether you can control the thing keeping you awake. If you cannot, stop working on it.
Copy your best sleeping environment when you travel. Chris carries a fan sound on his phone, and both hosts sleep worse with a hotel TV left on.
Adults 18 to 60 average more than seven hours, teenagers need about 10, and the requirement rises again after 60. Chris needs eight and takes it without guilt.
Shay needs to be physically and mentally tired to fall asleep; Chris only needs the mental side. Know which one you are before trying to fix anything.
Full Transcript
Shay: And it all comes down to this. Two on, two out, bottom of the ninth. The Farmers lead by one.
Chris: Full count, here comes the play at the plate, and it's the Ag View Pitch!
Shay: Welcome back everyone to another episode of the Ag View Pitch, and today Chris and I are going to kick off our farm health series. And in this series, we decided it would be a good topic just because we get a lot of people not only asking us questions but making making comments on maybe what they should be doing or getting a little bit of feedback. Uh, you know, Chris has been good with a lot of these things over the years, and I'm working through this currently. And I think some of the perspective to provide on this is, is super important, especially as we look at farm health. So today we're going to start off by talking about sleep and the importance that that has for all the other subjects that we're going to go through this course. And we will eventually evolve this into working out, eating right, mental escapism, and protective equipment here for the first 5 episodes.
But Chris, I was wondering if maybe you could start by diving into sleep and talking about the importance there.
Chris: Well, you're waking me up here, I guess, so I'm going to have to get out of bed now. But no, I think it's just, you know, ironic. First of all, what I do want to say is that, you know, we had talked about doing this health series way before the coronavirus and all this other crazy stuff's been going on in the news. And so, you know, there— it's just coincidental, I guess, but I think probably more important than ever as we, you know, get towards the busy season of the year on all of our farms and things are wild and crazy and, and we need to be there more, we need to be alert, we need to know what's going on. And I think You know, starting out with sleep is probably one of the best areas to start with. And that's one area that, you know, and I was talking to you offline, Shay, that I am, you know, I guess I am proud of being good at sleeping.
You know, for a lot of us, you know, everybody sleeps different. You know, for some people, you know, they wake up early and their mind is going 100 miles an hour and you can't get back to sleep. And conversely, some people can't get to sleep because their mind is going 100 miles an hour. So I think one of the key things that I learned a long time ago was to learn how to shut your mind down. And a lot of times, you know, I think, I think males, men in general, are a little better at it than women as far as, you know, sometimes shutting your mind down because, you know, it's just a little different, you know, psychologically and how we look at things. And there's obviously some biological differences between genders there too. But, you know, for, for Someone to get to sleep is a lot of times kind of a big deal of, you know, what do you need to do to unwind?
You need to, you know, like for myself, it's the best thing for me to unwind is to maybe get 15-20 minutes of TV and start to fall asleep a little bit on the couch. And then by the time I'm getting pretty tired there, I can go into the bedroom and be sleeping in 5 minutes, you know. So what is it that, number one, that allows you to unwind You know, it might be, you know, just going and sitting down and reading, or it might just be, you know, closing your eyes and just, you know, even meditation a little bit is a good thing, or prayer, or whatever it is for yourself that allows you to unwind. And, and that's really a key thing to, to get yourself to sleep. And then I think the other thing is when, when people wake up, a lot of times I've heard some of the best business people I've ever worked with over the years tell me that they always have a notebook beside their bed.
And, you know, you wake up in the morning, sometimes you're thinking of 3 or 4 different key things and you're like, "Ah, I got to get up because I got to do this or do that." If you have a notebook laying on the bed stand right beside your bed and a pen there, you can reach over, you can write down whatever the 2 or 3 thoughts were, put the pen back down and lay back down again for a minute. And maybe you'll fall back asleep if it's an hour sooner than you should be getting up anyway or 2 because you're worried about not remembering or— all those, those thoughts are scattered and, and, you know, so that's just one thing to kind of be thinking about.
Shay: And yeah, and I haven't heard that either. I think that's a great idea. See, we're, we're learning here together, Chris.
Chris: Yeah.
Shay: But no, I think, I think another thing too is how people actually fall asleep. So whether it's the TV or reading a book or just having quiet time, maybe it's actually reading the paper for some people. There's a few different techniques that I've learned over time that help me. And especially when you have your mind running at 1,000 miles an hour, one thing that I try to do is just clear my mind. And it's easier said than done, but if you— a technique is if you actually envision kind of taking the thoughts that you have in your mind and pushing them from the front of your brain and pushing them all the way back down into the back of your head, down almost down to your spinal cord, and just imagining that, you know, you have empty space up there and just kind of clearing and wiping that thought.
And that's a technique that I had read a number of years ago, and it's amazing how much that can actually calm down your mind and calm down the activity that you have going on in there. And people do other things too. Some people like to, to do a countdown, and they'll start at 100 and By the time that you methodically get through that, it's a process for your mind to focus on that one task and slow your mind down a little bit. And another one too is focusing on breathing. And so I think taking 15 to 20 deep breaths in through your nose and then breathing out slowly through your mouth really calms your heart rate down for one, but allows you to focus on what your task is at that point. And your task is to go to sleep and getting your mind shut down, I think, is, is so crucial. And those are just a few techniques that I found to be helpful.
In addition to, like you said, watching TV, reading a book, or whatever else it is that you need to, to do to calm down.
Chris: Yeah. And, you know, I, I'm, I believe in the faith side of that too. You know, I mean, there, there is some. Some high value in, in that quiet time too before that to sit down. And like I said, whether it's prayer or whatever, but it just close your eyes and you're not going to sleep, but it's your— but you're shutting down. And, and that's a perfect time. And what I do a lot of times, and the side effect is I have a tendency to forget things pretty easily, but is to forget what you can't control. So there's a— there's so many things going on in the world that that impact our lives and our businesses and our farm operations and our families, but there's a lot of things you can't control. So, it's like, you know, if it's something that's on your mind, you got to ask yourself, can I control this?
If you can't control it, then, you know, what, you know, that is something then to start shutting down and not be thinking about and just don't think about it, you know, try to push that, like you said, push it back. Back further and stuff too.
Shay: So no, that's a great point. Let's, let's talk a little bit about sleeping environments, Chris. I know you had some notes on that, and I have a couple comments as well.
Chris: Yeah, well, I mean, it's just for everybody it's different, but if you have an ideal sleeping environment, what is that? You know, for some people it's got to be pitch black. Well, if you're, if you're that type of a sleeper and you don't have it pitch black in the morning and the sun starts to come up and you need to be sleeping longer than than that, you know, what do you need to do to make that environment so it stays dark longer so you get the sufficient amount of sleep. The other thing is like, you know, listen, I always have a fan going. So, you know, some people like to have that noise. If we don't have a fan, we've got a fan on our phone, you know, that sounds like a fan or whatever. So if you're traveling, you know, what can you do to make your sleeping environment like it is with what your best sleeping environment is. You know, I think that's really a key thing too.
Shay: I agree. And there's actually been a lot of studies and research that look at how light impacts sleep. And so even if you think that you can sleep with it being bright as day out, or the alarm clock next to your bed doesn't bother you, there's actually been a lot of studies that show that your body reacts to light sensitivity. So even if there's a small light on, uh, down by your leg, you know, that you can't even see in a pitch dark room, your body reacts to that in different ways that you don't get quite the sleep that you actually need. And it's very interesting. It's very intriguing. I encourage anybody to look that up and learn a little bit more about that. But definitely those, those factors that we don't always consider. And another thing too is looking at screen time.
And I know it's, it's a contentious debate, and I don't think that's You know, none of this is us saying what's right, wrong, or different. It's just providing a little bit of perspective. But one thing that, that Hannah and I do is we don't have a TV in the room. And I think everybody has a different, different preference for that, excuse me, for what that looks like. But I find that I need to have that physical separation of a wall between me and the TV in order to go to sleep and sleep appropriately. So whether it's a TV screen or being on your phone before bed, there's a lot of research out there that points to the fact it might contribute to difficulty sleeping if you have that in the time leading up to falling asleep.
Chris: Yeah, and that's, that's half the problem with a lot of the kids today too, is we let them go to bed with their cell phones so they stay up 2 extra hours dicking around on their cell phone when they could be sleeping. And I'm as guilty as anybody else, so I can blame it on kids, but You know, if we have a TV in our room, but I try to shut it off, you know. And when I was a kid growing up, I had a TV in my room and I slept with the TV on all the time. And I know for a fact I don't get as much— get as good a sleep if I fall asleep in a hotel room with a TV on. I never sleep as well as I do if that thing is off, you know, and I have some kind of ambient noise in the background. So again, I think it's just for all of us to to ask ourselves, what do we need for the best sleep?
And especially like we said, you know, at the beginning of this conversation, as we get into the busy season and we talk about health, you know, and you think about the lack of sleep, I contribute, you know, and I've been blessed and I feel like I've aged slower than maybe what my age is. I mean, I'm 53 years old and I feel a lot younger and I contribute a massive amount of being blessed with aging a little slower, I think a lot of it has to do with sleep. As I allow myself to sleep, you know, I know some people feel guilty, is, you know, I need to be up and I need to be moving by 6:00 AM. Well, if I feel like I need that extra hour of sleep, I'll sleep. I mean, I'll sleep till 8 o'clock in the morning. I don't care. I want that sleep first, and then I'll be that much more productive when I'm up.
And so I think we got to also step back and not feel guilty if we need an extra hour of sleep, we need to take it. And because, you know, you're going to pay— it's either pay me now or pay me later on lack of sleep, you know. So I think that's huge. And one other thing, one other thing, Shay, I wanted to just roll through, if it's all right, just on the— on some perspective on, you know, you ask the question, how much sleep do I need? And there's some charts on, on different ages, and, you know, and Newborns obviously, you know, need 14, 17 hours. Infants, you know, 12 to 16 or whatever. Obviously, they need a lot more sleep. But I think a lot of people don't realize with like little kids, you know, 1 to 2-year-old little kids still need 11 to 14 hours of sleep. And for us as adults, that seems like a ton.
But, you know, when you look at, you know, kids from say 6 to 12 years old,— that's 9 to 12 hours, which is recommended, you know, and everybody's different. Some of those kids need the 12 hours. Some of them might be okay with 9 or 10. But the other side of it is teenagers, you know, 13 to 18 years old, you know, need 10 hours of sleep, you know, and, you know, their brains are still developing and all that stuff. And how many of the kids with cell phones and you know, all the technology and everything we have, are actually getting that much. And you think about the impact that has on them. But even with adults, you know, 18 to 60 years old, you know, on average we need more than 7 hours of sleep on average. Which means if, you know, if you're not getting, you know, that full 7 hours, you're not getting enough sleep. And as we age, it's even more.
You get over 60 years old, it's, You know, a couple more hours a night. As you get older, it starts going the other way again. So, you know, and everybody's different. I mean, they, you know, you hear Trump talk about, "Well, I function on 4 hours of sleep." I don't know very many people that can function on 4 hours of sleep for very long without it being detrimental to your health. I mean, a lot of us do it in the spring and fall in agriculture. A lot of us know how that makes us feel. And then you don't eat well and everything else. Is, you know, as a side effect to that. But, you know, I think the key thing in this whole message for this, Shay, from my perspective— and you can comment on it— but is, is that know yourself. You know, I know that I need 8 hours. You know, I can function really well on 4, but my body needs 8 to fully, you know, recondition and be ready to go again.
And so I don't feel guilty if, if I need to be doing stuff, but, but I use sleep to, to regenerate. I just think we all need to step back and make sure, especially in this time of viruses and all this crazy stuff going on right now, that, you know, I think this is a good area to start on.
Shay: Yeah, and I absolutely agree with that, that knowing yourself is very important. And, and just as an example to provide some perspective here, I know that I sleep best in hour-and-a-half increments. So whether it's an hour-and-a-half nap 3 to 4.5 hours of sleep or 6 or 7.5 hours of sleep. I really know I've gotten that dialed in over the years on what is most effective for me. But another theory that I have, or an observation that I have in my own experience with sleep, as I've, you know, over the years through the military and whatever else, I've worked any hours of the day, different shifts, different time frames, different jobs. Is I need to be either physically tired or mentally tired or both in order to fall asleep. And if we're in a day where we are in meetings all day, that might be enough of that mental tiredness in order to get us to fall asleep.
But for some people, it's not if they don't have that physical. So a lot of times at night, I'll find myself after a boring day in the office or a day full of meetings or whatever, If I haven't gotten a workout in, my body does not want to go to sleep. Whereas vice versa, if I was physical labor all day, moving things around, doing stuff with, and in the seed house or, um, whatever it may be around the barnyard, I go to sleep and I lay in bed and I just have a thousand thoughts racing through my mind. And so what I found is being both mentally tired and physically tired. Is crucial. And I think that's going to lead into the rest of the series kind of as we work through, you know, working out and getting into the eating right, mental escapism, and then finally protective equipment for the first, you know, 5 episodes that we do in the series.
I think that all kind of ties in there together. So any, any last thoughts on sleep here kind of as we wrap up, Chris?
Chris: Well, obviously we're not sleep experts, but I think this has been a great conversation for perspective again for everybody to think about and Anybody has questions or comments or things that we aren't bringing up, I think that's important. And it was funny listening to you say, well, I need both, you know, exercise and stimulus and also the mental. I can just tell you why I said it's know yourself is so important. You just described yourself. For me, if I have a day in the office all day and I'm brain dead, I can be sleeping in 5 minutes. So, you know, I don't know if I need the the physical part of it. But, but, you know, and I do, I mean, I— and we'll get to that, you know, in another podcast. But I mean, I think the physical part of that does make the sleep better though, for without a doubt.
I mean, I try to never miss a workout any day of my life, but I think that's— that does help to sleep. There's no doubt. So that's a great point. I think, I think this was a great conversation. And I think, you know, hopefully this gives people a flavor for what we're going to be talking about as we go through the health series. It's not like we're experts, but it's just to kind of bring, bring health to the forefront because as producers, a lot of times, you know, we do a really good job of checking the oil on the tractors and we grease everything and we do all this stuff for, you know, for our equipment, and we don't sometimes recognize that the most important piece of equipment we have on the farm is our body. And we got to take care of it because that's, you know, that's what allows us to function in our business and make ourselves productive and profitable for the family.
Shay: Right. And the last thing I'll say on this, Chris, is if anybody out there wants to talk through any of these items with us, I mean, we live it every day, just as you all do. And we're more than happy to talk through this. And I want to give a thank you to the listeners out there. This series was actually inspired by a listener reaching out to us and more so on the working outside, but it got Chris and I thinking on, well, there's a lot more that goes into the health big picture, and starting with that sleep is so important. So we welcome feedback from listeners at any time, and we just want to thank you all for taking the time to tune into the Ag View Pitch. It's something that we truly enjoy doing, and we hope that it continues to provide value to all of you. So any and all feedback is welcome. Chris, thank you so much for taking the time to have the conversation here today.
Chris: Yeah, good chat. Thanks. Thanks, Shay.
Shay: And thank you everyone for listening. We will catch you next time on the Ag View Pitch. Thanks for joining us on today's episode of the Ag View Pitch. As always, you can reach out to us at cbarron@agviewsolutions.com or duanel@netins.net. We'll catch you next time on the Ag View Pitch.