Land Values and Access to Capital

Chris

Barron: Hey everybody, before we get going with this discussion here with Ben Gordon and Fractal Ag on land values and kind of where things are going, what the market looks like, just want to let you know up front here that I will be on a webinar, with Fractal and a couple of other, uh, interesting people talking about how much land are you prepared to buy this year and pressure testing your capital plan. And so I think it'll be an interesting conversation. Just wanted to kind of let you guys know about that. I will be on that Wednesday, June 26th at 8:00 AM. So that'll be a webinar and we will have the signup in the show notes so you can go in there and, and click on that and get signed up, or you can go to Fractal Ag and click on there and sign up for that webinar. With that said, enjoy today's conversation. Welcome everybody to another episode of the Ag View Pitch.

Today we're going to have a conversation around land values, around ways to access some capital to maybe look at that opportunity that you may have. And cash flows are going to be tight. Financials are being watched real closely. And so I thought today would be a great opportunity to have a conversation with Ben Gordon, who is the founder and CEO of Fractal. And so with that said, Ben, how's it going today?

Ben

Gorden: Not too bad, Chris. Good afternoon to you.

Chris

Barron: That's good. Good to have a conversation here. And I guess what I want to do first of all is you and Shay had a conversation, I think last spring, so people can go back if they want to know all the nuts and bolts and what really Fractal is about and what you do. But for the sake of the listeners here, and we're going to get into land values and a bunch of different things, tell us a little bit about where you're at now. What is Fractal up to? What's going on? What is it? What are you doing?

Ben

Gorden: Yeah, the quick overview. You know, we're a different type of land investor. We invest alongside farmers. So we essentially want to provide farmers a source of equity capital. So you'd use us combined with that to, to invest in your operation, whether that's a new field, buying out a landlord or other kind of positive returning investments. And if you really kind of, you know, our model is essentially pretty simple in that, you know, we invest minority portions into a field. The farmer maintains operational control, agronomic control. They maintain, they're on the title, we're not on the title. And the whole idea is how can you partner with a farmer in a real way with really aligned incentives?

And, you know, really the fit for us, for folks typically is, you know, If you got a lot of landlords that, that, you know, are probably going to be selling in the next couple years, or maybe their kids might be selling, we fill that need often to help you buy kind of a big chunk of land that might be tough or might stretch you. So you can kind of keep that financial discipline on the balance sheet that's out there. Or somebody who's looking to grow because they're bringing on the next generation, or just somebody who thinks there's going to be a lot of opportunity in the next 3 to 5 years. We're not a silver bullet, but we're just another kind of tool in that toolkit for farmers.

Chris

Barron: Some of the guys might be thinking, where's that capital come from?

Ben

Gorden: Yeah. I spend a lot of time now in New York and London and San Francisco fundraising. Really for us, our promise to investors that farmland's a heck of an asset, which I think you and most of, I think, your listeners understand. Not as many folks on the investor side know that, even though we all face a lot of pressure. But really, our thesis is pretty darn simple. Do you think in your skyscraper in Manhattan you're best positioned to manage that land? No. Neither do we. And so, we think you should— we have a model that can go find great operators and partner with you, and you're going to give up some control, but you're going to get a slightly higher return for giving up that control. So, just trying to find the fit between somebody who's looking for financial exposure. They don't get to own a single piece of land. They get to own kind of a collection or a portfolio.

And we really like it that way because I don't want my investors thinking, Hey, I can go in and tell, you know, Chris and his family how they're going to farm because in our contract they can't. That's just not a fit for us.

Chris

Barron: And the other area where it's a good opportunity for people to look into this, I think too, is, as you said, you know, there might be that farm right across the road that you've seen your whole life and commodity prices are tight. Maybe we just bought a farm down the road a ways and we don't want to let that one go and that parcel's large, might be a little bit more than we can bite off. And it's just something that maybe we need to have a conversation because that might be the way that we get ahold of that property that we otherwise maybe couldn't.

Ben

Gorden: When we were just starting the company, a mentor of mine and my Sunday school teacher and one of my best friend's dads was describing the concept and, you know, he reminded me, he said, you know, you remember that field that you might have wrecked one of our snowmobiles skills in. You had to bring that in. He's like, well, you know, that one was actually in the family and they lost it in the '80s. And if they would have had something like Fractal, like, they, they would have been able to take it. Now, we can't solve every one of those solutions. It's still about, you know, good solid financials. But, uh, if it helps you with that, that must kind of have purchase, or just allows you to kind of protect that balance sheet a little bit, keep that working capital, because we don't know what the next couple years are going to look like, um, you know, we're a fit in those situations.

But not all of them.

Chris

Barron: Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, we'll talk a little bit more about Fractal and stuff towards the end of the conversation, but I want to get into some nuts and bolts of some things that people would be very interested in that you have access to in terms of knowledge and information and things that you're seeing in the industry, you're seeing with land values, and you're seeing a lot of things that I think people will find interesting. And I kind of want to start out with that. Talk a little bit about what you guys are seeing in terms of land values, you know, the high quality, that mid quality and low quality. What, what's cooking? What are you seeing?

Ben

Gorden: Yeah, I mean, I think no surprise to most of your listeners, like Class A ground or your highest quality ground is still generally stable and in some cases still growing. We have seen some slight downtick on the Class A, but it's been pretty minimal. I think where we're really seeing it already in the market is in that kind of Class B, Class C, kind of your mid to low quality, your marginal ground. We've seen declines as much as 20% And when I say what we're seeing, I'm not just talking about option values, Chris. I'm talking about the county recorder data that we're looking at back, a lot of the off-market transactions. And I think there's a lot of anxiety by investors, even as individuals, about where land values are going because farmland's a really unique asset, but it still doesn't escape the impact of rates and commodity prices.

And the math says that it's worth a little bit less than it was before. And You know, we'll see how— what the extent is. I don't think we're in the 1980s, but we're definitely seeing some movement in the market.

Chris

Barron: You can get a 5-plus percent return on your investment at Vanguard or something. I guess my thing is, is, you know, sometimes people will be like, well, why? Why are people even interested in looking at land right now with where interest rates are at and everything you just described? But my argument always is that, you know, land— there's never a bad time to buy land if you're going to own it for 40 years or for multiple generations. Because if you look, I know Iowa State had data that— and some of what I've gotten too over the years is we see about a 6.5% average-ish, right in that range, but it's higher than 5% over a 20-year period on average.

And so I think there's just people out there that when you're looking for those investors, I think that creates an opportunity for us as producers as well, because all of a sudden that capital is available for a capital-intensive business. Talk a little bit about that and some of the conversations you have to have there to kind of explain that.

Ben

Gorden: Yeah, I think you were talking about the kind of the 6.5% return. I've seen some of those studies from Iowa State. I mean, I think if you include leverage and then you include the operating margin that you get from that, pretty quickly you're looking at 10 to 12 historically, and that's pretty good, but an investor's not going to get that. And frankly, farmland's been a pretty solid asset class in the past 20, 30 years, but I guess our view is even with the short-term headwinds that we face from rates moving, it is going to be a heck of a lot better of an asset class in the next 30 than it was in the last 30. Well, why? What's changed? I think the simple answer is there's a heck of a lot less Amazon to be deforested in Brazil to bring on new supply in the market.

You don't have as much of Eastern Europe with Ukraine and Russia involved in the conflict there and seen a lot of degradation of land. And you have demand continuing to increase globally and especially in the US with biofuels, renewable diesel, sustainable aviation fuel. And so you just look at just the basics of supply and demand. Yes, I love farmland for all the emotional reasons of having grown up around it. But if I just look at the numbers and I'm an investor that cares on a 10, 20-year horizon, It's a heck of an investment and the drivers behind it aren't tied to everything else in the stock market. And that's really, really valuable. So there's a lot of folks that are really excited about the asset. And I think that's going to grow and grow. Luckily, the competition's probably not going to be in the next couple of years as much, but it's coming. It's on the horizon.

And there's a lot of investors sitting on their hands right now with a lot of money waiting for a dip in the market, ready to swoop in.

Chris

Barron: If we see a dip in the market, right? Inflation is one of those things we do that, that, you know, at some point I think, you know, a lot of those people are just going to have to, you know, look at it as a diversification. How do you know when to buy in? Because you don't really know. Is it going up? Is it going down? Is it going sideways? You know, you tell me what the commodity prices will be in October and I'll give you a pretty good idea what land values are going to do right in the near term.

Ben

Gorden:

Ian

Formigle: And if I could tell you what commodity prices were doing, I'd go make a bunch of money doing something else and then I'd come back to this business for fun and probably with a bunch of my buddies just backing them. No, I think you're spot on, Chris. And I think for us, I feel confident investing in land because our investors want a longer hold period. I still think it's a heck of an investment and you can't predict the future, but you still got to manage your risk, both for us as financial players, but more importantly, for our farm partners. And, you know, what are the right pieces, being disciplined about that, but also seizing the opportunities that are out there.

Chris

Barron: Right. Let's shift gears for a minute here. You know, I asked you to send me a few things to kind of help me think about how we want to have the conversation. And pent-up supply— is there pent-up supply? I mean, because it feels like, you know, there's probably some operators or some families that would sell, but they're wanting to they don't want to sell when it is soft either. And so maybe they delay it for a bit of time. So, you know, it's the supply and demand picture, right? You know, there's, it feels like there's still not a lot of supply out there, which is probably one of the things that's holding values up. What's your two cents on that?

Ben

Gorden: Yeah, we're seeing a lot less open market sales, but still seeing a lot of off-market sales. But I guess a couple factors that we're seeing. One, declining commodity prices impacts folks where that's a part of their income, whether flex lease, custom farming, or existing operators that might hang it up in a year or two and are thinking, and their transition plan is to maybe sell a little bit. In some ways, that pushes them to want to sell sooner because they're going to have less profitability in the short run. But they're getting advised often by good farmland real estate folks to make sure to know who your buyers are. And if you don't need to go to an auction to go do all that, let's just get that sale done off the books and lower some transaction costs. So you're seeing a lot more creative sales.

But overall, I think, yeah, there's a little bit of anxiety and there's a little bit of fear. And there's been a lot of markets that haven't hit minimums, or a lot of, sorry, a lot of auctions that haven't hit minimums. And just some numbers that I think have been surprising to folks. And I think folks that own land typically, I think, have a similar belief to you, Chris, and to me, where they think it's going to go up. In the long run, and you don't want to sell when everything's flat or in the trough. And so it means that I think the opportunities are often bigger per deal, but fewer smaller deals. And that's pretty tough for the farmer buyer.

Chris

Barron: Yeah. Do you, do you see that tight supply continuing then? Because it seems like, you know, let me, let me ask it this way. You know, if you go to an auction or whatever, there's less people there now. But there's still people there, right? There's still tremendous interest. And especially when there's less supply, you know, that interest isn't going to go away. And it just seems like that's continuing to keep things stable. Comments on that?

Ben

Gorden: It just takes two. There was a market we were looking at that in about a 20-mile radius, there's really three farmers who bought up the majority of the land in the last probably 5, 6 years, and they've driven that little submarket up. You don't need a room full to have a competitive auction, and we've learned a lot about that. I think in terms of forecasting supply, I have no idea, Chris. I think a lot of these markets, you see a lot of changes, and like you said, you can't really predict even 6 months out. I will say we've been talking about generational transition with farms a lot, The landlord transition, that's a bigger one and that's a little bit more predictable if you look at average age of asset holders and just actuarial tables catch up.

And I think we're seeing a lot of, from our farmers, it's a lot of deals where it's frankly, it's the next generation doesn't want to own. And so when somebody passes on, they have to take advantage of that sale right there or they're going to lose that ground that they've often been farming for 10, 20, 30 years. Yeah.

Chris

Barron: That's where you guys come in to help with that. So Talk a little bit about interest rates because that's been obviously a big deal. You know, maybe we'll see some softening, maybe we won't. I mean, I don't think anybody knows. There's always all kinds of predictions out there. But, you know, talk about what you're seeing. Is that influencing? Has that slowed the farmers down? Has it made farmers more interested in a program like what you guys have? You know, talk about the impact of the interest rates.

Ben

Gorden: Yeah, I think there's the impact on the farmer and then there's the impact on their investor part or their banker partner. And I think If you look at loan-to-value limits for most institutions, like they— you're getting— you can get less financing for a given piece of ground, and the cost is a little bit higher. And so that just means that, you know, maybe before on an average year, you could, you know, you could bite off an 80 every year, every other year, or a heck of a lot more. Now it might be 80% of that. So you can't quite do as many deals. So it has a real just like mathematical impact. I think the other impact of interest rates actually goes back to folks who refinanced a lot of their debt in 2020, 2021, and who now are going to have some of that variable rate debt. And hopefully they had a nice 25-year note that was locked in.

Like, those are the operations that I'm very thankful they did that. I love when we find partners that did, but not everyone did because again, we can't all predict the future. And there's going to be a wave of folks here coming in, 6 to 12 to 36 months where you're going to see some refinancing, and we're seeing some activity from that. So it certainly is having an impact. I think with any of these things, I'm not an alarmist. I don't think you're going to see a big groundswell of any one of these trends we're talking about, Chris. It's going to be on the edges, you know, in some couple more bigger deals that come out, and it always happens, you know, kind of at that worst time for a given farmer. So it's all about, you know, kind of being prepared to handle the implications of this. And if everything swings and it's all hunky-dory, that's great. Can't wait.

The American farmer continues to march on in a great way. But if we had even a few of these headwinds, I don't think as many folks are as ready for it as maybe they think.

Chris

Barron: With that said, to expand on that type of stuff a little bit further, two things. Talk a little bit about what it looks like for one of your clients and talk a little bit about what your clients are thinking when they decide to go with Fractal or if they look at alternative capital to kind of really spread their risk and mitigate some of the risk, maybe a better way to put it. Talk a little bit about that.

Ben

Gorden: Yeah, it certainly starts with them and not with us. These are folks that are typically— usually the reason or the kind of impetus for things is either generational kind of transition planning or maybe they're are just going down their list of landlords this spring and they realize that some of them aren't in the best shape and they might have to be ready to buy a bunch of these acres. Or you have somebody who's gone through the '80s and realized on the farming kind of leadership team or operating family who remembers when, you know, having one banker could be a really risky thing unless that one banker was great. And so often it's a need to diversify capital sources just in general, just to protect the operation in case we hit a little bit of a longer downturn. Again, try not to be doom and gloom here, but old Boy Scout, like be prepared.

And I think in the infantry, it was very similar, like be ready for that. And I think the other one is, the other kind of just big thing that we're seeing is being proactive about that. So going through engaging with the landlords, other folks in the area, kind of that networking that sounds really either intimidating or embarrassing to a lot of us, But just, you know, doing it on a good-natured basis of knowing what's going on and then doing the math. So working with the banker, working with someone like Fractal, or if you have another investment partner, just have the really open, transparent, proactive conversation about and knowing essentially how much could I bite off at any given time? How could that change?

And from a Fractal perspective, like we're willing to have that conversation, get somebody underwritten on a field that they have today, and we'll just sit on it until you have an opportunity. Or a lot of folks take capital early because there's some advantages to having some extra cash on the balance sheet right now.

Chris

Barron: What are the, what are the opinions of the lenders? So when you sit down and explain the program, how that all works, and again, you can go back and listen to your and Shay's conversation because you guys go through all the nuts and bolts of the system. Talk a little bit about, you know, the perspective. Do you get any pushback from lenders? Are lenders kind of all on board, kind of a mix? What do you see there?

Ben

Gorden: When we get pushback from a lender, it's usually because a farmer is really excited and they say, hey, here's this thing that might be described a little bit more silver bullety than it is. And then we come in and we remind the lender that we are very fundamentals-based and we're just here to help out with essentially one of two things. One is more cash on the balance sheet so that the farmer is more stable. And, you know, so that farmer can grow in a good, safe, disciplined way. We are not capital of last resort. We're not trying to find folks that are just trying to grow for growth's sake. A lot of the folks that you work with, we've worked with, and these are folks that know their numbers, they know their margins. If I think about your guys' winter presentation, they're benchmarking and they know where that is. And those are the types of folks who lenders like.

And when they see that we're just helping them with the financial ratios or a given deal to stay within that normal discipline they expect, they really like that. And they like that we have those values. The second thing is just from their own incentives. Once it clicks for a banker and they realize there's more total equity to be lent against, they realize it's good for their business too. And as long as the farmer's taken care of and it's good for their business, most folks, even if they don't want somebody else around the farm table, they usually get their head around it pretty quick. And we're not trying to disrupt bankers, we're not really trying to disrupt anyone. We're just trying to bring a tool that we think is necessary and frankly are a little surprised that it hasn't been around for the last 10, 20 years.

Chris

Barron: So if a producer is financially stable, let's say in pretty good shape, let's say, you know, a really clean debt-to-asset ratio, a history of decent cash flow, you know, you're gonna have those ups and downs, but, you know, pretty manageable cash flow, good risk mitigation, good crop insurance, APH levels good, all of those types of things that, you know, make a business solid, right? So the lender looks at that business and says it's solid. And like you said, the farm across the road, that, that 500 acres that you pull out of your driveway and you see across the road all the time, or down the road that's close, that the next generation's coming back. And that's the way it is with a lot of our listeners. You know, there's, you know, these are multi-generational operations, or they're trying to figure out, you know, how do we grow?

And, and sometimes it is, it is purchasing that land. So talk a little bit about who you're a fit for? Because I kind of described, I think, what you're looking for. You want people that are already in pretty decent shape, but, you know, talk, give us a little bit more nuts and bolts on that.

Ben

Gorden: Yeah, we're a fit for somebody that is looking to grow in some way, shape, or form. It doesn't have to be massive acreage expansion, but I think if you're looking to just stay steady, like, we're not a fit because, you know, our capital is more expensive than debt and You need a little bit of short-term, you can probably go to your bank and get a little bit more. So, you know, really that's the first piece. I think the second piece and like when it makes sense to look at us is essentially do the math on if that piece across the road comes up and if you have queasiness about what that's going to do to your ratios and just your ability to do the next deal or continue to operate with enough of that buffer and enough of that margin, we're a fit for you probably right now. So that way you're ready.

And I think the farmers who we have worked with the most, they're not just thinking about the next deal tomorrow. They're thinking about the deal that's going to come right after that one that they don't know about yet and being ready just in case for that one, as well as the long list of things they think could come for sale or other investments in their business. Because like our customer typically has more opportunities than they have capital for, because they are usually thinking about improving their business. It could be land, it could be other on-farm infrastructure, it could even be other businesses they have on the farm. And they are looking for capital, especially in a time like now where there's a lot of opportunity to take advantage of, to actually go out and execute on those projects without putting their legacy and their operation at risk.

Chris

Barron: Interesting. Is there anything that I haven't asked that you think is important that, hey, your listeners need to understand this about either the environment of what we're seeing or some things about how we can, you know, how Fractal can kind of work with and help some of these guys when they get to these situations where it's like, okay, we need that extra capital and equity along with it.

Ben

Gorden: I think it's the main thing. It's not about Fractal, it's just about being proactive and planning and knowing how much you can handle with yourself and any other decision makers on the farm if a big land sale comes up. While being comfortable, and then understanding what that means for your goals and other investments you might want to make on the farm. And this doesn't have to be some big giant exercise, like literally just pencil out, you know, in your area, kind of an average deal, and how far can you go. And my guess is, if you look at that, it's not as far as you might think right away. And then step back and think, well, do I want my operation— does my operation need to grow more than that? And if that's the case, Give us a call or find somebody else who can help solve it. There's a lot of creative ways to solve this.

There's a lot of good folks online that are thinking about it. Being part of a peer group is a great way to understand other levers to pull, but be proactive because the deals that I absolutely hate are the ones where somebody comes to us 3 weeks before a sale, says, hey, I need you to go do this. And frankly, I have 3 other deals on my plate right now, and I'm going to take care of the farmers who we're working with first. And like, that one slips by. And I'm not worried because I lost an opportunity to deploy capital. I'm worried because that farmer probably just missed out on something that's really important. And that is not a good feeling. And that is the big risk I see in operations today, especially over the next 12 to 18 months if some of that pent-up supply really does get unleashed.

Chris

Barron: Yeah, I think a lot of good points there. What do you guys look at if a producer calls you from their financials? What financials does a producer need to to share with you to kind of get it to handle if there is a fit?

Ben

Gorden: Yeah, I mean, we start with just a general fit of need, explaining what we're doing, but mostly explaining kind of what the farmer is looking for. Essentially, if that's going to be a good option, another capital source, like, we want them to please just go ahead and use that. But I don't want to kind of shove a round peg into a square hole. So that's kind of the first call. The second one is usually us just showing our financial model. So you can see behind the hood, the numbers, the cost, just super transparently. And then we usually select a field. We do really well in fields that have really strong agronomic performance. I think one of our shared contacts, and not too far from you, Chris, in Iowa, I mean, they had a field that I remember was just like agronomic outperformance to a T, 90th percentile yields, even though it was pretty low CSR2.

Like, we will, we pay really well for those fields versus somebody who's driven by CSR2. So we essentially show the farmer, this is what's going to get you paid. And you give us your field information. We go out, we do evaluation, and we actually present that valuation back to you. We show our work. So that way, if we're missing something, you can tell us. Now, Chris, if we're doing something and you say, hey, I'd like an extra $1,000 per acre, please, I'm going to say, you probably know your market. You're probably smarter than I am. But unless I can prove it, I can't go bring that back to an investor. So that's kind of the push and pull. It's not horse trading. It's just trying to be transparent. And then at that point, we'll usually review the same financials that they submit to their bank just to make sure that they're in a good position.

So we'll look at debt service coverage ratios from their income statement and the balance sheet. We'll look at overall debt-to-asset. It's going to be very similar ratios to what your bank's using. The nice thing for us is we just have a few more flexible levers because we're actually adding to your cash versus kind of taking away from it in a given deal. And that allows us to be a little bit more flexible.

Chris

Barron: So how do you handle improvements like tile or irrigation or something along those lines?

Ben

Gorden: Yep. If we're not paying our portion of the improvements, let's say we have a 40% position on a piece of land, if we're not paying kind of our 40% on that, we'll do essentially, hey, what's our value today and what's the value after improvement via an appraisal and kind of an estimate that we agree on? And then you get that whole improvement if we didn't pay. So in other words, if we're not contributing, we shouldn't get the upside from that. And I don't want to prohibit you from making good improvements, especially good agronomic and operational ones. That pay. So it just comes down to symmetry. If there's risk, we need to share in it. There's reward, you know, we need to participate in the cost to get it.

Chris

Barron: Awesome. Again, is there any other questions I didn't ask? And then I got another announcement we need to make here.

Ben

Gorden: No, I think, I think that's about it.

Chris

Barron: Okay, well, cool. So you got a program coming up. Talk a little bit about what you got coming up here and the dates and all the information.

Ben

Gorden: Yeah, we, we have a webinar coming up in, in about 2 or a week and a half, and we'll have a good set of folks that are talking to farmers, consulting, and that will— well, I think we have one esteemed guest here with you. We'll have Evan Sheldt from Maverick Ag and Grant Weezy, who has a great newsletter out there, and it'll be moderated by Tim Hamrich. But really what we're just going to have is a conversation really around just this capital planning process., and just some best practices that we see in some of that forward-looking planning. It's not going to be about some highfalutin concepts. It's really about just kind of that tactile advice of, all right, what are other folks doing? What are some tools you can use in a discussion about things to be thinking about in that for a farmer?

So that will be— I'm sure we can get it in the show notes itself, but it'll be the 26th of June. At 7:30 AM Central Time.

Chris

Barron: Yeah, I've got 8 o'clock, but that's probably— that you want everybody to log in at.

Ben

Gorden: That's, that's my— oh, sorry, that's my whole— that's my hold internally. It's 8 o'clock. You're right, Chris. Thanks for keeping me up.

Chris

Barron: Yeah, so, so 8, 8 o'clock, I've got it. And, and, uh, um, yeah, it sounds great. We'll have a good conversation. Evan Schout was at our conference, um, last year, did a great job. And Grant Weezy will be awesome to visit there and just kind of— I'm looking forward to it. I think it'll be a great conversation and, and, uh, happy to, to be a part of it. So, um, and we'll put the— and as far as registration for that, um, you want us to put that in the show notes then?

Ben

Gorden: Yeah, that'd be fantastic. It's just a really quick couple of clicks, um, just so you can get into the Zoom webinar. And it's, it's not a, it's not a big Fractal sales pitch at the end of the day. Um, here we're trying to have a conversation, uh, with a bunch of folks on key problems.

Chris

Barron: Yep. Yeah, I think it'll be a great conversation. So that's why I kind of wanted to do this discussions. I think people can jump on there and learn a lot and kind of see what's going on in the land environment right now. So with that said, again, June 26th, 8 o'clock in the morning. And I guess as far as that goes, really appreciate you, Ben, being on here. And, and I think there's a lot of opportunities, there's going to be a lot of changes, there's going to be a lot of collaboration and a lot of growth in the future. And I think we're all going to have to even if it feels like it's not a fit, I think it's something that we need to look at and have on our radar as something that, you know, if it doesn't feel like a fit right now, it might be in the future. So I think it's just things that we need to all make sure that we are aware of opportunities that are there.

Ben

Gorden: Couldn't agree more.

Chris

Barron: All right. Well, hey, Ben, really appreciate it. And also appreciate everybody being on here. I'll— if also, Ben, if they want to, they can go on— is there a website they can go on to, to register?

Ben

Gorden: It's just fractal.ag, F-R-A-C-T-A-L dot A-G. Sorry, my North Dakota accent confuses the egg and the ag sometimes. Yep.

Chris

Barron: All right, that sounds good. Well, get registered and then jump on there. It'll be a good conversation. With that said, thanks everybody, and we will catch you again next time on the Ag View Pitch.