Lender communication

Joe

Paulson: Hi there, this is Joe Paulsen with the Ag View Pitch. Today I sat down and had a conversation with my lender and good friend Jeremy Dutch with the Farming Banker Podcast, and We had a fantastic conversation around how you should talk with your lender. Hope everybody enjoys it.

Jeremy

Doetch: All right. Well, I'm excited here. This is something I think, you know, ever since I was wanting to put together a podcast, I always had you in mind, Joe, that, you know, someday we'd sit down and do this because we talk so much, you know, we really should every time we get together, just have mics there and record it, you know, you know, I don't know if it would be quite as profound as the, um, you know, Andy and DJ from, you know, the, the, uh, Real AF with Andy Frisella. Oh yeah, you know, but maybe we could hang with some of the Bar and Talk guys, you know. So anyway, the, this segment, um, you know, where, as you and I've talked, is, you know, a little bit about, you know, how to talk to your banker, how to have effective communication on obviously business relationships, um, and that type of thing.

So You know, I thought maybe what we'd do is just start off, you know, maybe just give each other a little bit of background, you know, kind of summarize our working relationship, that kind of thing. So tell us a little bit about, you know, your farm and what you do.

Joe

Paulson: Yep. I'm Joe Paulsen, uh, corn and soybean farmer, Northern Illinois. Um, been working with Jeremy for— I don't know, what has it been?

Jeremy

Doetch: It's, you know, I think it might be going almost up, coming up to like 10 years.

Joe

Paulson: Yeah, at least 10 years.

Jeremy

Doetch: So it's at least 8.

Joe

Paulson: I think it's, it's been fantastic.

Jeremy

Doetch: Um, appreciate it.

Joe

Paulson: Absolutely fantastic. Uh, but, you know, um, multi-generational farm. You know, when I came back to the farm in 2000, my, uh, my grandpa and my dad were both heavily involved in the farm. I've been through a transition with my dad and, uh, you know, bought him out. He's semi-retired. He hates being called retired. Um, but, uh, yeah, we, uh, do a little bit of trucking, have an application business with a neighbor, and, uh, yeah, we, we stay busy.

Jeremy

Doetch: Yeah, like everybody. Yeah, yeah. No, I, I, uh, that, you know, that's one thing, um, I think that I've really enjoyed working with you on is that, you know, there's a lot of similarities in how we, we were brought up. Oh yeah, kind of, you know, we laugh about our fathers at some— at times, you know, but we also see the value of having diversity of income. We're not afraid to work hard. Like, there's just a lot of core value. I think, you know, I think that's maybe where some of this, you know, foundation has really started, is that, you know, birds of a feather flock together. We obviously were lucky to find, you know, uh, each other in a business working relationship that we just kind of— we think a lot of the same.

Joe

Paulson: Well, we're 3 months apart in age.

Jeremy

Doetch: Yeah, yeah.

Joe

Paulson: And our fathers both came, you know, came up through the '80s, came up through the '80s, were '80s babies. And, uh, you know, uh, we're kind of brought up both in that same mentality of, you know, eggs aren't in one basket.

Jeremy

Doetch: Yeah, I think that was a big lesson of the '80s, you know, is that, you know, and that's the thing that, you know, not only did you have to have diversity, but, you know, they weren't afraid to work hard. You know, they, they were trying to save it. You know, we've, you know, obviously had documented a little bit of it on our, our podcast on our farm of some of the stuff we did. But yeah, I think if they could survive that—

Joe

Paulson: oh, 100%. And I want to give that a plug.

Jeremy

Doetch: Oh, that's—

Joe

Paulson: appreciate that series you did with your parents about, you know, saving the farm is phenomenal. Anybody should, should give that a, a listen. It's kind of a fascinating story of how your, your family, uh, made it work, man. Yeah, they just made it work. Yeah.

Jeremy

Doetch: You know, well, I appreciate you saying that. Yeah. So I guess I'll— maybe I'll transition into, you know, obviously it's a Farming Banker podcast, but those of the— that may not know what I do, you know, obviously I'm in agricultural lending, but I also farm with my father, um, row crop farm, uh, corn and soybeans. We've last 2 years dabbled in a little bit of wheat. I don't know if that's You know, something we should be— poverty grass. Yes, whether we should be continued to do or not. Um, but then we custom raised some hogs and, you know, my, uh, my father's slowing down. I haven't gone through the transition yet like you, but he also does like to say he's semi-retired because he sold the semis. You know, we had a trucking division and ever since he sold the trucks he says he's semi-retired.

Joe

Paulson: And, and I think that was a lot of work, man.

Jeremy

Doetch: Yeah, I think in his mind he's just saying I'm retired from semis. I still like playing in the dirt and, you know, being a farmer. So, um, so that's a little bit about, you know, on, on our side of it, what, you know, what I do. So I, you know, obviously help out with that and an active member of the farm. I just started up the pressure washer, you know, kind of business really that kind of has taken off. I didn't realize it would go where it was— it's been going here.

Joe

Paulson: Your power washing business is everywhere.

Jeremy

Doetch: You know, Joe, here's a funny story about this, and, and, and The thing is, is that I initially just started it to be able to wash our hog building on the turns and to do it really quickly. You know, I kind of was over— I really wanted to overtool it so that it was a quick, you know, wash job. And the next thing you know, it's turned into everybody saying, hey, can you wash this? Can you wash that? And the next thing you know, I'm busy all the time. Yeah, we're busy every weekend. I've got washes now until, I don't know, probably July, you know.

Joe

Paulson: And, uh, that's amazing.

Jeremy

Doetch: I can't wait till the boys are done with school so they could start clearing some of this off the list so I can get to planting corn. So anyway, so just real quick, I know you hit on it with our working relationship. Obviously we work together, you know, from the lending side of things. And, you know, I would say in a lot of ways too, we're also, you know, maybe have our own little peer group or we're confidants where—

Joe

Paulson: Oh, we talk all the time.

Jeremy

Doetch: We talk a lot. But I think that, you know, for us to— for everybody to understand how we got to where we're at today, you know, maybe we can break it down. And, you know, I was thinking about this and analyzing it, like, how, how did we just establish such a good relationship? And I think that, you know, there's a couple keys to this that, you know, I thought we'd kind of dive into and just talk. So, you know, at the very beginning, you know, I think the basic keys or needs to, to have any good working relationship, especially with things that are sensitive at times, you know, like we've been through sensitive times.

Joe

Paulson: Yeah.

Jeremy

Doetch: Um, you know, I think one of the You know, first things is, you know, establishing obviously trust and understanding our business. And I think, you know, some of those two things go hand in hand.

Joe

Paulson: 100%. And the way that I always looked at the banker is that, you know, they couldn't fully help me unless they didn't know the entire story. Yeah. So I was always very transparent with, you know, my lender before you. And then when you came on board, you, um, you know, you have a, you have a way about you that you're easy to talk to. There's no judgment, and, uh, that is super, uh, super helpful, you know. Yeah, but the transparency thing is—

Jeremy

Doetch: yeah, huge. Yeah, well, and I think that's, um, you know, how many times have you heard— and maybe this is just the way our generation is moving, you know, I, I don't know. But you hit on something that for me is really important to establish trust, and, and that is to not be judgmental. That is to be, you know, approachable and bring benefit to the, to the working relationship. And, you know, I think there's a handful of bankers that do that really well, and sometimes there's a handful of bankers that make people uncomfortable. And so, you know, that whole trust part is just knowing, hey, at the end of the day, we're both human, right?

Joe

Paulson: Yeah, you don't want to feel like you're going to the principal's office and you're walking into their their office and I never felt like that. And when I came to you with stuff that was a little riskier than maybe you were comfortable with, you never made me feel like that wasn't, like that was stupid or whatever. You always talked through stuff and gave input. Yeah. Constructive input. We're almost always able to make something work.

Jeremy

Doetch: Yeah, well, you do, you know, we're probably, oh, you know, maybe going a little bit ahead in here. And, you know, I would— you said transparency, and I'm always saying like share early, often, you know, that kind of stuff. But I think that's the basis of establishing that trust, is that you're transparent even though, um, you know, the, the initial thought might be, hey, this is a risky deal, or this, this is a something that we're going to struggle with our arms around, you always have a real well-thought-out plan of how you're going to make it work, what you're trying to do. And I think that's a big, you know, a big feather in your cap and a lesson learned. You know, if you want to have a good working relationship with, with somebody that has control of financing for operating equipment, land, whatever it is, you got to come with a plan. Yeah, come with a plan.

It's a lot easier to get your hands wrapped and arms wrapped around it than, you know, if you're just walking and say, hey, I'd like to buy the 80 across the road. You know, I mean, give me money. Yes, exactly. So, uh, establishing trust, you know, obviously I think is the, you know, one of the, one of the, you know, foundational keys to our working relationship, some of the success we've had. The other side of it I think is, you know, understanding your, your, the business. And, and, you know, that I think that's, I guess, a shameless plug on my side because I also farm with my father. It was easy for me to really understand your business being a row crop farmer, because there's a lot of similarities. Our operations look very similar in a lot of ways. Um, now there's a handful of businesses that I do that, that are different than that, um, that you have to understand.

But I think that's the essential thing, is that if I don't understand your business, you know, or, or at least, you know, understand why you're doing it, you know, I don't think we're going to have really good communication because I'm going to draw conclusions and lines to stuff that may not be real. You know, or, or anything like that. So I think that's probably been a big key too, you know, 100%. So, and then, you know, this is something I think, you know, you and I have certainly done. I'm not sure how many, um, uh, people actually get this from their bank, but it's been something that I've, I've tried to do with you and a lot of our customers is, you know, instead of just saying no or saying, you know, this doesn't fit our credit culture, that, you know, the loan-to-value is too high or whatever the case is.

You know, I, I think that understanding the business goes both ways, you know, um, on the bank side, to be able to say it doesn't fit our credit culture because of X, you know. And I know at our last renewal, I, I talked to you and Sarah quite a bit about, um, you know, just the, the challenges that our banking world has faced.

Joe

Paulson: I really appreciated that, you know, at a renewal Jeremy, I mean, we spent the first 15, 20 minutes talking about what is going on in the bank. What are some of the challenges that you guys are working through? What are— just let me know what that business is going through. It helped giving me better perspective of ways that I can help them., better, uh, you know, having the right stuff in the file at the right time. And, uh, and, and also understand— of being able to understand what some of your asks were going to be. Yeah. Later on in the conversation, it made that much easier as well. Yeah. And, uh, you know, that we're, we're in business together, and, uh, it's good to know both ways.

Jeremy

Doetch: Well, I think that, um One of the reasons why I like to do that, maybe it's just because, you know, outside of being a banker, I'm a business owner. But I think, you know, you do that same thing for me, you know, on your side when you come in, you're like, hey, these are the challenges I'm going to face this year. These are, you know, what I'm doing, you know, to overcome it or whatever the case is. And, and I don't think we do enough of that on the banking side to understand, you know, for, for, you know, anybody that's borrowing money from us to understand why some of the asks we are have, why We may be sensitive this year to certain pricing or leverage that we weren't 3 years ago, you know. I mean, all of it— again, you know, this podcast is, you know, Talk to

Your

Banker: Effective Communication, but it's, it's, it's a two-way street.

Joe

Paulson: It absolutely is.

Jeremy

Doetch: And so I think that's one thing that, you know, has been, you know, a really, um, a feather in both of our caps is what we've just been— we've we've been able to understand each other's business and communicate how that business works. So, and then, you know, um, I, I think this one at times is harder to— this other key here. So I, I guess to recap up to this point, we've got trust, understanding business are two, two of what I've kind of outlined as four keys.

Joe

Paulson: Yep.

Jeremy

Doetch: The other one is sometimes a little harder to, to swallow at times, but understanding that, you know, it's not personal, you know. Oh yeah, you know, and to have a little bit of that perspective, and that again, Joe, be hard, you know, when you're dealing with money and you're dealing with, you know, legacy, you know, decisions, um, things. I mean, agriculture is just rooted in people's blood like you wouldn't believe. I mean, you get a taste of it, you can't get it out.

Joe

Paulson: Correct.

Jeremy

Doetch: You know, correct. So I'm sure emotions at times can get high, um, but you know, taking a deep breath to understand that, hey, none of this is personal. This isn't Jeremy not liking Joe or Joe not liking Jeremy, you know, 100%.

Joe

Paulson: If we've done our job explaining and understanding our business, maybe at times this gets a little bit easier to understand that it's not personal, especially if, you know, if there's something that the bank can't do, you know, okay, what piece of this is the problem? Yeah. You know, and then, and then Why don't we take a break and let me go home? Let me think about this and see what I can do to help with this piece that's making it difficult and, and rework the deal in such a way that we can structure it, that it works for the bank, it works for me, and we can all cash flow it and move on and make it a group project. You know, I, No doesn't mean no to me.

Jeremy

Doetch: Yeah, yeah.

Joe

Paulson: It, it means not now or not this way. And then I go back and somebody tells me no, it's like, okay, well, maybe this then. Yeah, then maybe this, and then maybe this. And, uh, you know, having that open dialogue with, uh, with the bank is super helpful that you know, we're going to work through it however we need to work through it.

Jeremy

Doetch: Yeah. So, but I think if, you know, you know, I've kind of put this, these keys in order of, you know, I guess maybe building blocks of which ones, you know, how, yeah, the foundation, you know, the foundation where the first two are, you know, trust and understanding the business are important. If you do those two correctly, it's a lot easier to understand that this isn't personal. But I know, you know, you and I have have had a couple times where we've talked through stuff, you know, even with the, you know, the transition of, you know, um, you know, the legacy moving from your father into you. Um, there's been some transition from, you know, even on me as I've moved, you know, locations. Yep. Um, you know, in the raising, you know, interest rate environment and, and some of that.

I mean, we've had— I think we've had some candid conversations at times that have easily been taken personal that just— they weren't. And, and they— I think they weren't because I think both of us have mutual respect, respect for each other, and we understand it's not necessarily personal.

Joe

Paulson: Absolutely. So you, you, you just need to keep an open mind. That's, that's the biggest thing is, uh, keeping an open mind. Business is business, and, uh, Yeah, I mean, we just work through it.

Jeremy

Doetch: Yeah. Well, then the last one, the key here, you know, and I think this is probably where you're going to talk a lot more. I've been kind of dominating the conversation.

Joe

Paulson: Um, what makes it easier?

Jeremy

Doetch: I know. Well, I'm wanting to take a little break and, you know, uh, have you speak up a little bit here. But, you know, this— you had mentioned it earlier, being transparent. You know, I talk about, you know, sharing information early and often, you know, and You know, you're a— I always say you're one of my easier annual renewals because the amount of information you have, the type of information, you know. So, you know, give me just a little bit, you know, for the listening audience, you know, as far as sharing data, you know, sharing information with the bank, you know, the amount of time you spend going through it, what you do. I mean, we don't need to get into specifics, um, But I know you've got this Profit Margin deal that you're working with.

Uh, explain a little bit of that, how that— you think that's, you know, been beneficial to that whole key of sharing information early and often.

Joe

Paulson: The, uh, that's the beauty of Profit Manager is that it's, it's evergreen. So you, uh, you know, I start, you know, I start— I, I open up my Profit Manager usually for the next year somewhere, some somewhere around in July of the previous season. So I'll make my 25 profit managers sometime here in July, you know, when I kind of start having an idea of what some of the inputs are going to be like, you know, kind of know what some of the pricing is. I already have some of my crops sold. And then as I start going through things, you know, I start populating start populating that thing. And then when we come to renewal season, I— you get that profit manager. And then as things change throughout the year, I'm constantly tweaking that profit manager and then, you know, sharing it with you throughout the season so you kind of have an idea of what's going on, um, you know.

And then, and then having those conversations of, hey, this is what I'm seeing, this is what's going on. Things are looking good, or, you know, this is what I'm doing on the grain marketing side. The— it really kind of helps scenario plan what this is going to look like going forward. And that Profit Manager, I mean, you've seen those reports. Yeah, they do a great job of, you know, it's concise, it's easy to read. It's all right there. Good printable format for me to put in PDFs that then you can give to credit and they can read through it. It's a standardized form that you guys know. Yeah. That you've gotten familiar with over the years.

Jeremy

Doetch: Yeah. I would say, you know, it was funny when you had obviously, I think we had worked together maybe probably 3, 4 years before I came to the current bank that I'm at right now.

Joe

Paulson: Yeah.

Jeremy

Doetch: Yeah, something like somewhere in that general vicinity. And, um, you know, so you and I had already established the relationship, but obviously it was with a new lender, um, because of it being a new bank for me working at. Uh, and I remember, you know, there's, there's a little bit of, you know, uncertainty, I think, probably on both of our ends because we're still trying to test out credit culture. You're a newer customer to this.

Joe

Paulson: It's a new bank.

Jeremy

Doetch: Um, but I will say this is that, you know, our credit team you know, had made a comment to me. And, and I think at the, the very first time you had, you know, borrowed anything or come in to talk, or I, I don't even remember if it was the line of credit or if it was, you know, something else, you know, I can't remember exactly what it was. But I remember they were, they were commenting on how much information and how nice it was to see all that information in that Profit Manager, you know. And I think their comment was, we haven't seen somebody that put— has this much data in, in a projection. And so I think that, you know, sharing information, you know, obviously agriculture is a, is a little bit higher risky business on the bank side than it is, you know, somebody that's, you know, making raw steel parts, screws, plating, you know, that kind of stuff.

Um, and, and this Profit Manager really helps us get our arms around it. So it's a, it's a tool we absolutely love as well.

Joe

Paulson: Oh, it works. It works great. And it, you know, I've been in a constant state of expansion the entire time that we've been working together. And I don't think I've farmed the same acres for 15 years, you know, between Dad backing off and picking up some more things and adding more complexity to the business and, and then buying Dad out. My debt-to-asset ratio is a little bit on the high side. And you've made comment before that part of the reason that we're able to continue to do what we're doing is because of the level of depth that I bring in and share that the bank has context to what I'm doing and why we're at the point that, that, that, that we're at. And here's what the cash flow really looks like. Yeah. And there's, there's no questions in, in what the numbers are.

Jeremy

Doetch: Yeah.

Joe

Paulson: In there.

Jeremy

Doetch: Yeah. Well, you know, so I guess, you know, the other thing, you know, under this key is obviously we, you know, you know, I kind of highlighted profit margin because, you know, it's a tool that you use I really like. But, you know, the other thing that I like about that too, and this is kind of my next key, is that, you know, things change throughout the growing season. So another key to this, you know, fourth key of communication is that when things change, let's talk about them, you know. And, you know, I, I, uh, I'll, I'll never forget this, um, you know, a lot of the times I laugh sometimes when I think about it, is that, you know, in 2019 we had a really wet spring You know, and we were really late and, you know, it was a nightmare. Yeah. And it was more so for you and the kind of ground you have than it was for me.

And I remember, you know, in the banking, you know, on the bank side of it, you know, our ag team was getting together to try to figure out, you know, how is this really going to affect the, you know, all of our customers and, you know, what were the right decisions? You know, sometimes there's, you know, somebody that doesn't have as much detailed information to you. They look at us as a trusted advisor. So we're trying to figure out too. And, you know, you just, you came in, you had your Profit Manager, you, you had run the numbers. And, you know, I don't know if you told me it was your 25th revision to it or what.

Joe

Paulson: Oh, it was, it was crazy because we had all these different, we had all, all these different scenarios. We had, we had prevent plant that had nitrogen already on it. Yeah, we had prevent plant that didn't have nitrogen on it. Yep. We had, we had earlier planted corn that was probably going to perform normal. Yeah, we had later planted corn that was definitely going to have a different yield goal. We had beans that were planted normal, we had beans that were planted late. And that was the beauty of the Profit Manager is that it, because it is Excel-based, you're able to kind of like customize it into the scenario that we had going on. And then, and then of course, every single field of prevent plant had its own, had it, had its own guarantee attached to it. And to try and wrap our arms around what financially this was going to look like in the end.

And, you know, it brought some, brought some comfort to both the bank and me that, okay, this is how this is going to cash flow out. And, you know, kind of have an idea of what that's going to looked like.

Jeremy

Doetch: Yeah. And, you know, Shane, you know, it might have brought a little bit of comfort to your senior advisor that was wondering, are you making the right decision too, right?

Joe

Paulson: You know, this is the reason we're doing this. Yeah, this is why I'm doing this. This is why I'm doing this. Yep.

Jeremy

Doetch: And so, you know, we— I guess I didn't— in my, uh, my notes here, I didn't talk about how it, you know, it, uh, you know, it certainly pleases the chairman of the board as well. But, um, you know, it certainly helps your senior advisor too. But, you know, it's a great example, and one of the reasons why I want to bring it up is because, you know, we talk about— and I was on a, you know, podcast with Chris at, you know, Aggie Solutions, where we, we had talked about just effective communication in a small little blip of like state of the banking economy type deal. But this is a really good example of why, you know, if the plan changes mid-year why to get in, you know, see, see your part— business partners that, that you, you know, you rely on for your business cycle and say, this is why it's changing. Yeah. And this is what I'm going to do.

And so the whole, you know, segue from Profit Manager into this was, or, you know, we titled the Profit Manager, but it's, you know, just because that's what we're familiar with. But it's, it's really knowing your cost of production and get your goals set up, you know, whatever your tool is.

Joe

Paulson: There's a lot of good tools out out there that do some similar things. And, uh, you know, it doesn't have to be Profit Manager, of course, uh, but, you know, just whatever system you use or whatever it is, uh, you know, um, sharing, sharing that with the bank. And when the plan does change, get in. If you're, you know, the worst thing you can do is go dark. Yeah, you know. That, that, that is absolutely the worst thing to do is to go dark, uh, you know, when you want to do the exact opposite. Yeah, because then you got time to maneuver and, uh, and make, and make, make some changes. Uh, you know, your predecessor, um, it was like the third year that I farmed, uh, he had always told me, if you ever have a problem, yeah, that's not the end of the world. "Get in here early." There's a lot we can do in the beginning before you start making payments.

Then you go ahead and you make some payments and then you come in here in January, February, March and you're like, "Uh." He says, "Get in here early." And sure as shit.

Jeremy

Doetch: You're always pretty early, Joe.

Joe

Paulson: Well, I like to be in there early, but it was my third year of farming. And, uh, we, we— I had a, I had a major hiccup in '09, and we went in there early. We were able to do some things and make— and, uh, you know, taking— pay some interest. Yeah. Tag Principal on to the end. We were able to kind of judge things, and we got through it. And the next year, we were back to the races. So yeah. Uh, you know, having a problem isn't the end of the world. You just gotta— you just— you just gotta work through it.

Jeremy

Doetch: Yeah. So, you know, sharing— sharing the information, um, giving updates, all of that is, you know, key to, uh, you know, how to talk to each other in business, whether it's you and your bank or whoever— whomever it is, business partners, whatever, any of the stakeholders. Yeah. So I guess my final key underneath this, uh, you know, this last one of sharing information early on often, you know. And I think it goes without saying, but I think we both, you know, could talk real briefly about that, is that, you know, once you got your plan together and once you shared it, and when the bank, uh, or your financing partner, whoever it is, you know, um, has done, you know, is committed to their part, like, we both have to execute.

Joe

Paulson: Oh yeah, you know.

Jeremy

Doetch: So, you know, execution on what we both have agreed is key, you know, to to how we have effective communication, how we work together, how we establish rapport. Like, it all goes in, in, you know, in line. So, you know, I don't know how much you want to— on your end, you want to elaborate on that. Um, you know, I guess, you know, on my end, it's, you know, right, I guess, you know, for me it's understanding that, hey, you know, when we sit down in the renewal, like, things you have coming down the line in that year, you know, we may already build in some, you know, approvals. We may do some of those things to— when it's time to execute that in the middle of busy season, that we're not sitting in committees for 3 weeks. You know, that's already been pre-approved when we put this plan together.

So I guess on the bank side, that's how I would kind of say, hey, you know, that's my key to execution.

Joe

Paulson: I love that you do that. And you, you, uh, you are— and, and that's actually one of the first conversations that we have even before we come in renewal is you start asking me, hey, what are you thinking for the next— for this next year? What are the— you know, are you thinking about trading some equipment? Are you thinking about, you know, doing this?

Jeremy

Doetch: What are—

Joe

Paulson: what are the— what do your capital expenditures look like? Yeah. And sometimes I haven't totally thought through some of that, and it forces me, you know, reminds me that, oh yeah, you know, that's part of this renewal process is not only what, what are we thinking from a crop side, but what, what else is, is above and beyond that. And, and we can tack that all on to the renewal. Um, and that's, that's been helpful. And I haven't always exercised all, all of that either. No, no, sitting out there in the wings. Yep. So that if something pops up, bang, it's already right, right there. We already kind of talked about it. And, uh, it makes, it makes things a lot quicker in in the heat of the battle.

Jeremy

Doetch: Yeah. And, you know, I'll kind of, um, I guess tell this story. And I think it was you that— I think there was some equipment or something that you were purchasing, or we were redoing an equipment loan. I don't remember what it was. And, um, no, I was, I was combining, um, I think beans at the time. I can't remember if you were in your strip-till machine or, you know, you were still, you know, combining. I can't remember what it was, but I remember we did this right at— it was around you know, COVID time. And I think I signed my part of the documents from the seat of the cab, and I think you did too.

Joe

Paulson: We did, we did the whole deal in our machines.

Jeremy

Doetch: Yeah. And I thought that was pretty cool. And, you know, and just a, you know, a form of execution that, you know, you and I can both be out, you know, taking crop out and doing the execution on the farm plan, but we can also still do it on the business side too, together. And so that was a kind of a cool little, you know, thing that I'll tell people every now and then. Obviously I don't use your name, but I say, you know, it's just kind of funny that we can do that days. And so, you know, I think that's— execution's a big part of it. It's a big commitment, you know, on the bank side to make you comfortable that we will honor our commitments and we'll execute what we said we did. But, you know, a lot of times it's easy with what you do.

And, you know, I guess on your side of it, you know, the execution— and I guess back to Profit Manager and/or, you know, any other software that you use to figure out break-evens and track marketing— I mean, you've got it. You've you got to sell when you say you're going to sell. You know, you've got to do all these different things within your operation that, that are basically, you know, what we've talked about in January that you're going to do, you have to do for, you know, the next 10 months thereafter, or sometimes even longer.

Joe

Paulson: You know, you got to execute, you got to do what you say you're going to do.

Jeremy

Doetch: Yeah. And so you do that well. Um, and obviously, you know, it's easy for a profit manager And it sounds like I am singing the praise. I guess I am singing the praises of profit management. But I think that's kind of the final key for me is this execution side. So, I guess as we wrap this up, I don't know what other final thoughts do you have on this whole how to talk to your banker, effective communication deal?

Joe

Paulson: I think we pretty well covered it. Just be transparent and, uh, you know, talk, you know, do and do, do what you say you're going to do. Yeah. And that goes both ways.

Jeremy

Doetch: Yep, absolutely. Well, I really appreciate the time, Joe, and you doing this. It's, uh, it's been fun.

Joe

Paulson: Oh, I'm, I'm honored to be on it, and, uh, thanks, Jeremy.

Jeremy

Doetch: All right, thanks, Joe.

Joe

Paulson: Yep.