Part-time CFO for your farm?

Shay

Foulk: Welcome back everyone to another episode of the Ag View Pitch. Today you have Shay Foulk with Paul Bergschneider. And Paul, we're going to have a conversation today around what is the importance of having a CFO as part of your farming operation, or maybe a better way to say it is, does your farm need a part-time CFO. So first of all, thanks for taking the time to hop on today. And I wondered if you could just maybe give me a little bit of a background and tell the listeners about, you know, who you are and where you're located.

Paul

Bergschneider: Yeah, well, thanks, Shea. I appreciate the opportunity to talk to you today. Yeah, my name is Paul Berkschneider. I'm actually near Springfield, Illinois, is where I'm based at. Grew up on the family farm here. Corn, soybeans, cattle. We used to have hogs but don't anymore. Kind of like a typical farm. Did that, went to University of Illinois in Champaign, got my degree there, came back and kind of had in about 5 or 6 years and kind of were the basis of my, what I do kind of started. I kind of jumped jobs pretty quick. I worked in input retailing for about 6 months. And I always tell people, you know, one of the things I kind of looked at things differently was I'd go out to sell fertilizer for somebody and it was like, well, you know, how much fertilizer do you need?

Well, there's the agronomic side and there's also the business side of what actually can you afford and in the sales position of retail, that wasn't necessarily my part. But I'm like, I really enjoyed that more. Um, so I ended up shifting gears after that. I actually was a loan officer for the Farm Development Authority, which is in essence, at that time, it was like the Illinois version of FSA guaranteed loans. So I did that for about 5 years, doing mostly high risk and kind of a lot of livestock loans here in Illinois where the state would come in and guarantee them. Then I spent about 10 years in an accounting firm. After that. So did some taxes, financial statements, those sorts of things with farmers. And then there's a transition. The guy I worked for retired and I ended up just basically going out on my own.

So about the last 10 years or so, I basically kind of had a part-time CFO financial consulting business. I still farm. My dad and I farm and I've got a couple kids. One kid's kind of back from college this year. So, you know, based on the family farm, kind of doing the financial stuff. On the side is kind of where we're at.

Shay

Foulk: So yeah, that's great. I'd love to hear a little bit more about the high-risk loan, that 4 or 5 years that you were doing that. I can imagine there was probably a lot of interesting lessons learned, and I think we're at an interesting volatile time here in 2025 based on, you know, the last couple of years. Any key insight that you pulled from those few years that you were doing that that you think is relevant to today?

Paul

Bergschneider: Yeah, you know, I was interested in time because I started— people remember back in the day, I might get my years confused, '96, '97, when hogs went to $0.08 one winter. I basically started about 6 months later. They had obviously an influx of needing extra loan help when you go through something like that. And yeah, you know, the story I always tell people I saw was because that was the deal that was, you know, the hog business. And again, you've always got to go back. This is 20 years ago before everything was contract. So you had people with fair-to-finish, you know, a lot of guys had set up their business and basically almost like Monday you would sell pigs, you know, every Monday and, you know, every Wednesday you would buy feed and you pay the help on Friday. And like the cash flow just came in. I mean, you didn't hardly need an operating loan.

It just kind of week to week, everything cash flowed. And what you saw in that was, you know, You know, you see people that you look at their balance sheet and you go like, wow, how did they have so much trouble at one point in time? Well, it was back to working capital and cash and that they basically didn't keep enough of it for that, you know, once in a blue moon emergency, you know. And I saw things like you would see because we were doing basically through the state levels, you know, a lot of different loans. But you see somebody, you know, one county, the next, everything's very similar. You know, I saw a couple of times where people like were in a hurry to pay down their fixed loans. So they were like, oh, I want to hurry up and get this hog building or combine in their other operation.

I want to get my fixed loans paid down as fast as possible to get rid of those so I don't have that debt. But they still would keep their operating loans. Then you see other people who kept all their fixed loans and really didn't have much of an operating loan. And when things got really bad in those weeks where pigs were selling for 8 cents, the guys who kept all their fixed loan and had no operating loan had a lot more options because they still had an operating loan. You know, you could go into the bank at the teller and they would still give you money because your operating loan wasn't maxed out where the other guy went in. And, you know, even if he had prepaid on all his fixed loans, you know, you could have got the mortgage, the note out and said, look, I'm $200,000 ahead. Like, we don't care. Pigs are 8 cents. The world is falling. Everything is going to end.

So we can't help you out. Well, you know, if you look at the bank's books, both guys have been in similar situations, but one guy managed it differently. So my take-home lesson was that is you have to keep enough working capital or a way to access it. No matter what, because yeah, you just never know.

Shay

Foulk: So, so you think that situation still applies today, as, you know, farmers listening to this are looking at the, you know, maybe even some, some of the longer-term loans being termed out because of the financial situation that we're in a lot of hard conversations, I know, going on here, the last 2 months, and definitely in the next 2 months for a lot of farm operations. Do you think that still applies on how do you prioritize where you're paying down some of that debt?

Paul

Bergschneider: Yeah, I think so. You know, some of that's in the good times too. I mean, I think a lesson to be learned is, you know, 2 or 3 years ago or even a year ago, it's like, I think, oh, I might be able to pay a loan off early. Don't. If you think something's coming, you're better off to wait and make sure you can. But now I think the other side of that is, is if you're having, you know, some financial trouble and you paid some loans off early, you know, to go back and restructure those loans and basically put them back on the books in the fixed loan side is not a bad thing. I mean, you're just basically fixing what you did and put that working capital back in. Or if you had something set up where, you know, oh, we bought a farm a couple of years ago and we set it up on, you know, we thought we could pay it off in 10 years.

It's like, well, you know, you're not going to pay a farm off in 10 years on the farm. You're paying it off with other earnings. And if those other earnings aren't there, then there's nothing wrong with, okay, we got to restructure and put it back to 25 or 30 or whatever it is.

Shay

Foulk: So Yeah, no, that's—

Paul

Bergschneider: yeah, no, I think that's a piece of it too. So, you know, to remember that just if you have to restructure your debt, nobody wants to do it, but it's not the end of the world. It's just especially if you go back and dig into, well, what do we do? Or, you know, I often do with guys is go back and figure out how much equipment you bought in the last 2 or 3 years and wrote a check for it and then look at your working capital and then say, wow, if I had borrowed all that money, this is how much working capital I'd have. You'll probably feel a lot better about yourself. You'll be able to explain stuff to your banker a little bit better. And then, you know, you can go in now and do a machinery loan on all that stuff that you already bought for 6 or 7 years and kind of bring some working capital back. So yeah, there's a lot of options.

It's just, it's something you got to— you got to take the time to look at it and dig through it and figure out where you need to be.

Shay

Foulk: I appreciate your insight on that. I think that'll resonate with this crowd, especially as they kind of look at renewing operating loans and then thinking about, you know, what debt they're going to take on because equipment still needs replaced. You still need to have a plan in place. You still need to move the operation forward. We're not going to be in an economic downturn forever. You know, decisions still need to be made. So I think that's a very pertinent outlook for 2025 as well with, you know, and maybe with the work you're doing. I'll ask you a couple questions, and I'm going to come back to, you know, maybe how farmers should be thinking about those types of things on a more frequent basis. So whether that's monthly or quarterly, kind of planning out what their future purchasing looks like.

But I think this might be a good time to tell listeners, you know, you mentioned you about 10 years ago, you know, started doing your own kind of, you know, firm with what you're doing there at Bergschneider Ag and You know, maybe tell us a little bit about what you do, kind of what services you offer to farmers, and, you know, why you feel that that's important.

Paul

Bergschneider: Yeah, so I mean, usually the easy way to describe it is like, I'm kind of like a part-time CFO for people. And that's kind of all over the board. I mean, I have people that I maybe, you know, help with projects once a year when they're trying to figure out their year-end financials to the bankers, and then, you know, I have people where I'm doing monthly financial statements for them, you know, a lot of it's just simply dependent on kind of the structure of your farm operation, you know, what do you need? And what do you need help with? You know, it's just to me, it's something that, you know, I talked about the background I have, you know, I've kind of been able to sit on both sides where I used to be a banker, I used to work in an accounting firm, and I also farm. So I kind of see both sides of that.

So, you know, I can help somebody with, okay, we need to get our financial information kind of looking like this. So the bank's credit department doesn't have an email that has 14 lines on it with a whole bunch of questions, you know, to kind of be set up and then to help them from an accounting side, you get everything ready for taxes and stuff like that. So, you know, I help people on things from just, you know, I mean, some stuff is just helping bookkeeping. I don't really do much bookkeeping myself, but it's like, oh, we've got this weird transactions. How do we put it in the books? Well, you know, call me, I'll help you through it., you know, to helping them with, you know, payroll taxes and then getting your information ready for your accountants at the end of the year. And then stuff into, you know, should we trade combines?

You know, how much can I afford to buy, sell, you know, buy the farm that's coming up for auction next door? And then like we were talking about for all that debt structure and stuff, you know, okay, I'm trading this, you know, should I get a loan on it? Should I pay cash? Should I lease? You know, there's been times where leasing might make sense. So you go trade machinery and the dealer gives you two options. Well, how do you analyze what these two options are with different payments and that sort of stuff? So that's just kind of plugging it into a spreadsheet and trying to figure it out. So yeah, and then, you know, I help people some, you know, your estate planning and stuff like that. I mean, not an attorney, but kind of, you know, one of the things I talk about too is, you know, a lot of it's just as a family, you've got to decide what you want to do.

So some of it's, you know, as I know, operations over time, you sit down with conversations and talk to them with that. So there's a lot of different things. I mean, it kind of depends on the business and the farm. You know, if somebody has a lot of different entities, You know, one of the things we sometimes do is like consolidate all that stuff. So instead of having 6 different balance sheets, well, the bank usually wants to see all 6, then they want to see the summary of what it is. So I help people do things like that as well.

Shay

Foulk: If you had to put a number, I have a number in my head. How many farms do you think have a full-time CFO on staff?

Paul

Bergschneider: Oh, very, very few.

Shay

Foulk: Maybe less.

Paul

Bergschneider: And I think most farms are— what was that?

Shay

Foulk: Maybe less than 2%.

Paul

Bergschneider: Yeah, I would think so. Yeah. Yeah.

Shay

Foulk: And why do you, why do you think that is?

Paul

Bergschneider: Um, I mean, some of it's a size thing and just having a full-time person in the office, you know, if you back into the amount of income it's going to take for that, you know, I think that's a lot of it. Um, you know, some of it too, I mean, it's the, um, you know, the business side, you know, I have a friend who always said, and I kind of found this true, you know, farming, they always divide farming into 3 pieces. You have the agronomic, the machinery, and the business. Because, you know, most people kind of like and are good at 2 of those 3. Not everybody likes all 3. And it's kind of like, you know, you got to figure out where you might need help out with those. You know, I said, you know, I enjoy the business side, I enjoy the agronomic side. If you've got to take an engine apart, something breaks when I'm in the field, yeah, I am not the guy.

I just got to pick the phone up and have somebody come help me, right? So, you know, everybody has their, you know, their passions and what gifts God has given them. And it's just, you know, sometimes if you need some help on this or that, you know, it's no different than you can't fix the combine because you gotta plug the laptop in to get it to work and you gotta call the dealer. It's like sometimes you might need some help on the financial side. Yeah. Um, but yeah, most farms don't. It's just a size thing I think is why people don't have 'em.

Shay

Foulk: And, and that was a bit of a loaded question, but I think, I think the flip side of that coin is if every farm could afford it, you know, what percent would have it? And I think it would be a massive amount. And what that, what that tells me is the value that there is in better understanding the business side, you know, people maybe know that they need better numbers or need better understanding. I think repeatability is a huge thing of how do you make sure that the processes and procedures that you're doing in your accounting, in your recording, in your projections for your year-end are repeatable processes. And that's where the CFO would fill that role. But what ends up happening as farmers is, you know, you end up just doing all of it and you maybe are doing 6 things 40% as well as you should be. It's all getting done, you know, but what's at stake there?

And that's where I really do think that there's a massive amount of importance with having an advisor or having, you know, if you, if you can't afford a CFO, as most most farms can't, you know, who is on your team that can provide those services and provide that value. And I would also tell you too, that the number of clients that we sit down with, with Ag View Solutions on the consulting side, that are at the point in their business where they know they're missing something, but they don't know what it is, probably 60% of the time, it's a CFO, or it's someone that can take, you know, maybe they have their basic accounting down, but they want better numbers, they want better projections, they need to have someone analyze that information. And I'm guessing you see a lot of the same thing as well with the people you work with.

Paul

Bergschneider: Yeah, I know, absolutely. And I even think some of it, you know, not to survive, you know, I think historically lenders kind of would fill the gap of some of that. And like, has changed, things changed with them, you know, they really probably shouldn't be giving people opinions on management advice. But I think historically they did. And I think in any accounting firm too, I mean, you know, it's a struggle for people to find, you know, accountants that understand ag. And I think, you know, 20 years ago you might have been able to find somebody who also would be able to do some of these other kind of CFO-like things at an accounting firm. But just finding people that have that kind of at your accounting— funny, anybody working at accounting firm is a struggle, and then finding the ag side's made it harder.

So there's that more of a niche where it's kind of back to, yeah, you need to do it for yourself on your own farm. Because like I said, it just, it's so important, especially now with as tight as things are with margins and stuff, you know, just sitting down once a year and doing your cash flow and hoping that it's right. And then, you know, doing that today and then turn around trying to sell corn in June based on your numbers that you put together in January. It's like, yeah, that probably isn't going to work, or it will work. But you just don't know where you're at until the end of the year. And that's, you're just always behind trying to make decisions.

Shay

Foulk: And, and I just wrote an article on that that was titled, you know, 2024 is a train wreck in slow motion. We saw the 2023 ending balance sheets that people had corn priced at $5.25, $5.50, or they didn't have it priced, but they had it annotated on their balance sheet as that. And, you know, corn dropped down to $3.80 by June or, you know, June, July, August, September of 2024. And now you have people thinking we just had $500,000 of working capital wiped out. You know, if they chose to or were forced to sell their product as a result of cash flow needs or they needed to bend storage space. So I think that's a very relevant recent history example. And I think your point there with the thin margins is a great segue into the next question that I was going to ask. And, you know, how does the CFO make or save farms money?

You know, how do you think about that from not only like a consultant advisor standpoint, but just objectively, you know, how should farms think of, okay, If I bring a CFO into my operation, how do I justify it? Because we do work with operations that are at the point where they need to hire, but they're just, they're really struggling with trying to bring someone in full-time or to pay for those services.

Paul

Bergschneider: Yeah, yeah. I mean, some of it's, again, it depends on your farm operation. You know, I've seen to the point where you get to that point and you get like even looking at your bills, you know, sometimes some of us just looking at stuff and analyzing. I mean, the example I can give from history I've seen is like, you know, somebody go through and say, okay, you know, you think your input bills ought to be about this much. When you get the actual bills, they are way— I mean, way, way over. And it's like, yeah, maybe we all decided we were wrong.

Or maybe there's a billing issue that, you know, when you get to the point where you're buying a tremendous amount of fertilizer, and you have all these invoices, you know, most farms don't have a, you know, something came into a warehouse, they're usually a piece of paper, and it shows up at the warehouse, and they hand it to the accounts receivable person, there's some pattern. Well, most farms just get a big packet at the end of the month. Like, yeah, I think that's about right. So some of it's just helping, you know, in an office tracking some of that stuff down.

And then I think some of it is just simply, you know, if you're smaller than that, it's just, you know, when you get put a budget together to be able to look at things, I think, you know, forward and backwards, like your example there with the grain, you know, if you were sitting down quarterly or a couple of times a year just looking at accrual financials, And again, you know, doing an accrual financial in June for a farm, you know, it's harder to do. But something like this huge thing with the grain being sold for less than what it was, you could have had that number figured out after the grain was sold and sat down with the banker in June and said, hey, this is coming and it's not good. And, you know, basically how much over time too. I think a lot of it's the stress of, you know, from June on to the rest of the year.

How much were you thinking about that, but you really didn't know exactly what it was? And once you figure out what the problem is, you know, like you got to identify it first and you figure out how to solve it. So I think there's a lot just in the— to me, it's in the decision-making. It's being able to have the information you need to make decisions as fast as you need to be able to do that. I think that's a lot of value that a CFO brings. I mean, there can be some specific ones you're saving this or that, but I think it's that. Then I think it's just a relationship with your banker and your accountant, like If everything is ready and everything makes sense, I think it's a lot easier, you know, for you to be able to get your loans approved. And then also, you know, flip side of that is there's an opportunity to grow.

I think when you have all your ducks in a row, the bank's like, okay, we can— if you think that'll work, we trust you, you can make it work. And I think you get some opportunities that you otherwise wouldn't. And, you know, I do think there's a difference in interest rates. I mean, there's a little bit of that too. If you show up with really good information, you might get a little bit less interest rate. And if you're borrowing enough money, that can add up and pay for a chunk of somebody's cost as well.

Shay

Foulk: I'm going to add one more that you didn't, that you didn't list out there. And that's sleeping really good at night and having peace of mind. You know, that's, that's hard to put a price on. But I think, you know, you do get— I think regardless of operational size really is what do people stress about? And a lot of times it's the stress of the unknown. And if you're running a business and you don't know your numbers and you don't feel comfortable with where you're at financially or just don't understand it, what's the value in having, you know, an advisor, someone on your team that really understands that, can give you those numbers, give you those projections. And that's a, that's a price that's hard to quantify and a value that's hard to quantify.

But that's what we really see with a lot of folks when they get to that point of just saying, I can't do this anymore, I can't handle it on my own. And, you know, maybe I need to bring someone in as a, as a part-time CFO to really help our operation. And, you know, I know it's a big need out there. When do you think objectively that, you know, farms should really start to consider having a part-time CFO or having an advisor as part of their decision? Is it, is it an acre? Is it a dollar amount? Is it, you know, some combination? Or, you know, how should they think about that?

Paul

Bergschneider: Yeah, you know, I mean, It's something that's dependent on, I think, you know, your— what you're talented at too. You know, if you're like, you know, if you used to be a loan officer, then okay, maybe it's not as big of a deal. Um, you know, the acreage— I don't know if it's exact acreage. To me, a lot of it's also, you know, I mean, as you get bigger— where to me the biggest thing I see is as you get multiple family members like in the operation making decisions, like past the husband and wife stage, And even that maybe sometimes, but especially if you get like there's 2 or 3 people with multiple generations and like, you know, if we have one example, you know, we got one operating entity with several different individuals owning it and then we've got a trucking side business and we got a seed side business and all that.

It's like sometimes you just need somebody objectively to sit down and say, okay, here's what everything looked like last year. And, you know, and making sure that You know, when you have different entities, there's a lot of stuff going back and forth. So you've got to kind of make sure all that stuff makes sense and is fair. So to me, when you grow to that point, I think that's definitely in a situation where, yeah, you just, a lot of times, you know, it's just beyond what typically a person paying the bills, you know, the amount of time you have allocated for somebody doing that. It's like once you get past maybe 1 or 2 entities and it's like, okay, we can just pay the bills and do 1 balance sheet. Once you get past that, I think you really need somebody to help you come in with that. Yeah. And just, and too, I mean, I think, go ahead.

Shay

Foulk: No, that's a, that's a great answer. I, I think it is a little bit more complex than how I intentionally laid it out there. So, you know, that's, that, that's a great way to lay it out.

Paul

Bergschneider: I will say too, I mean, I know people who have, you know, just pharmacists You know, they're like the— I'm gonna say the one-man show, but a little bit like they do everything, you know, maybe not farm that much, but they haul the grain, just spray everything themselves. And they like— and maybe have livestock on the side. Like they don't ever have time to be in the office and they never are. Like, okay, that's somebody where it's like, you know, I mean, I've had people who are like, you know, please help me, you know, part of my CFO, please help me set my computer up so I can pay my bills. Like I've done that for people before. It's just okay. Yeah, you know, to make it as easy as you can because their goal is, and they've got a business that I need to be outside working all the time. And I need to spend as little time in the office as possible.

And it's like, okay, you know, I can maybe get my bills paid, but then everything else, you know, because I've got people who I mean, you know, the banker calls me when they want the information first. And then I call the farmer. Yeah, I may already actually have it. But I say, okay, can I send this to Bob today? And like, sure. So, you know, it's saving them some time too. And it's at some level, it's like, you know, instead of having somebody help you out on the farm, do some work, you have somebody in the office helping you out. And there's some of that as well.

Shay

Foulk: And if you enjoy doing the, you know, you divided it into business, ag, and equipment, you know, if you like doing the agriculture, the outside agronomy piece of it, or operating machinery, why hire someone else to do the stuff you like doing? If there's someone that's much better than you at the stuff that you don't like doing. And I, I think there's a lot to be said about that too, is if we're transparent and honest with ourselves, there's things that we're just not good at. I'm, I'm the exact same as you, Paul. I, if it comes to breaking something, I'm pretty good at breaking stuff, but when it comes to fixing stuff, I'm really not that good at it. And that's why I like working with, you know, the, the mechanics and the people that we have locally, because I understand that my asset is in managing the agronomic side and in managing the business side, mechanic side.

I'll let someone that's more talented and gifted do that. That's huge. You know, one thing that I wanted to hit on here, the last couple of questions I had for you is, you know, are there a lot of— it seems to me that there's not a lot of like, you know, for hire or part-time CFO services out there. And I think it's a huge asset to farm operations. Is that a proper perception or am I, you know, am I just oblivious to, you know, some of the services that are out there?

Paul

Bergschneider: Yeah, no, I don't think there's a lot of people that do it. I mean, I think there is some that, you know, at the accounting firm level that sometimes people are kind of doing it on the side, you know, that they have somebody who they trust and do it. But yeah, there are not very many just flat out CFO, part-time CFO stuff out there.

Shay

Foulk: Yeah. And then I think another important question to ask is we always tell people on the consulting side is here's what we do do and here's what we don't do. You know, there are things that we don't do as part of transition planning, business structuring, cost of production analysis. And usually it comes down to there's a lot of things that we don't physically do for people. You know, they're the ones that do that. We talk on the bigger picture, the implementation. Here's the plan. Here's the, you know, communication that we should have. Is there anything that you make sure— or not make sure, but is there anything that you don't do as a part-time CFO service that people ask you that you're like, ah, that's just, that's just not part of, you know, what an advisor like that should do in your role?

Paul

Bergschneider: Yeah. One thing is I don't get into the tax preparation at all. I kind of used to do that previous thing, but just kind of what I'm doing, I really enjoy the CFO part more. And then it's kind of the way to set up, don't do that. And then I think I've kind of is over time like the bookkeeping piece and the part-time CFO or CFO, usually that doesn't work. I've kind of tried it and basically what it is, I mean, I'm remote, so, you know, most clients I don't get to their farms. You know, I may go for once or twice a year for a meeting, but like the bookkeeping, dealing with the mail, the bills are coming in. It's like really for that to work right, you really got to have somebody there in the office that's really good at it and is getting all that stuff done. You know, like I said, if they have questions, sure, you can help somebody figure it out.

But that bookkeeping piece is— it's almost like you got to have a way to— and that's too, I see that where the value of the part-time CFO, you know, if you're really struggling to pay your bills and just getting stuff done, I don't know if having a part-time CFO come in really helps because, you know, when you get into accrual financial statements, an example I give people, you know, I have people before were like, You know, at the end of the year you got to sit down and you're doing that balance sheet, like what's your accounts receivables and accounts payables. And that has to be a really good number and it has to be consistent from year to year to year. And if you're struggling to get to that point, it's like, well, you're probably better off to spend money on that and getting that fixed before you look for somebody to help you.

Because so much of like what a CFO will do for you is they're going to look at how those accounts receivable, accounts payable change from year to year and what trends that is. And if you're all over the board with what your— those bills are, or, you know, something like an example I give is, and I know people who, you know, work on machinery and get their combine fixed, then, you know, back and forth, you know, some years they're paying in January, they're paying for last crop year's, you know, combine repair. And then I know some people who in January are paying for the one for the next year. Yeah, it's like, well, you've got to get some details like that figured out because that kind of stuff messes your accruals up.

Shay

Foulk: Completely.

Paul

Bergschneider: Yeah. So that's a part of it I've seen where like to get to the part-time CFO and get that data we're talking about, you got to have, you know, a really good set of cash books. It's not the accrual adjustment, it's just the cash side and where we're at.

Shay

Foulk: Yeah. No, I think, I think that's a great place to kind of work to wrap this up here. And, you know, Paul, I think there's a lot of people that would really benefit from a part-time CFO. That's why I wanted to have this conversation because you know, Chris and Andy and Joe and I, we work with these operations that have a lot of the bookkeeping in place. And, you know, maybe they're growing their business or maybe they're at a point where they have, you know, like you said, 2, 3 generations involved or multiple owners within an entity. And they just need that level of professionalism. And, you know, they might not be at a point where they can bring in a full-time CFO. And, you know, I think, I think the services that you and others offer is you know, something very valuable. So I think clients, listeners will get a lot out of this. You do have a website, BergschneiderAg.com.

Is there any other good resources or places that people should check out what you offer, Paul?

Paul

Bergschneider: Yeah, no, like that's a good place. And I mean, I think my email is on there too. It's just paul@bergschneiderag.com. So welcome to email me with any questions. As far as resources, I tell people anything you write that David Cole has written, Read it because him and Danny Klinefelter, those are the, the, the godfathers of, you know, trying to sit in that place where you're combining, you know, the farming side and the business side together. And that's the stuff you need to look at.

Shay

Foulk: So with, with the work that you do, I'll leave you with this, Paul. Is there, is there any recommendations or just thoughts that you have on your mind as we head into 2025 here? Something, a key takeaway that operations should be thinking about as we move into the new year?

Paul

Bergschneider: Yeah, no, I think it's, you know, it kind of comes back to what we're talking about at the beginning. You know, it's the working capital side. I mean, you know, we talked about a lot of what can happen in the past. You know, at this point it is what it is. I think the biggest thing for a person to figure out is where are you at working capital-wise? You know, what's your next year going to look at? And then, you know, I always go the next step is, well, what's it going to look like a year from today? And I think that kind of helps you figure out like, okay, you know, if we're in an okay position 2025, you know, we're not going to make any money, maybe lose a little bit, but we, you know, we have enough working capital at the end of next year, our ratios look okay, then, you know, you can just kind of plug your way through it.

Um, you know, but if your working capital is not great and you look at next year and like, oh wow, it's going to get a lot worse by the end of next year, don't wait till the end of next year to talk about that. You know, that's something where you got to sit down with your banker and maybe you got to restructure your loans or do something different now. But You know, because, you know, we could have a great, you know, you sit here today and sometimes when cash flows don't look so great, you know, I've been doing this long enough where sometimes they don't look great and the year ends up fine. And then sometimes there's years they look pretty good and like, oh, at the end of the year it doesn't work out. So you just want to make sure that, you know, if it doesn't look great, you want to sit down and talk with your banker and figure out what you can do to make it better.

So, you know, the goal is to make the family farm survive way past this one cycle. And you got to look with that long-term in mind as you're looking at it.

Shay

Foulk: Yeah, that's great advice, Paul. Well, thank you so much for the time. And, you know, for those of you listening, if you think you may need a part-time CFO as part of your farm operation, I encourage you to give Paul a call and see if that's a good fit for you. But Paul, stay warm out there, and we'll just plan to be in touch.

Paul

Bergschneider: Yeah, sounds good. Thank you, Zach.

Shay

Foulk: And thank you everyone for listening to another episode of the Ag View Pitch. We will catch you next time.