About This Episode
Every operator has watched the yield monitor swing 40 or 50 bushels inside one field and been able to explain only part of it. Drainage and stand account for some. The rest, Uppena argues, lives in soil biology, the third leg next to genetics and management. His reference points are David Hula and Alex Harrell, the corn and soybean record holders, whose edge is not a secret input but fewer bad days for the crop across the season. Yield potential peaks in the bag and drops the moment the seed meets stress.
The products supply extra auxins, cytokinin and gibberellic acid, the three growth hormones, to keep them ahead of the two stress hormones, ethylene and abscisic acid, which the crop needs at the finish line, not during the grand growth stages. Picture a tug of war: when the stress side pulls, the plant quits filling grain and hunkers down. Corteva's claims rest on a known mode of action, EPA registrations, glycol formulations with shelf life, and 90 pages of replicated trial data. They ride along with the planter, the post herbicide pass and the fungicide pass.
Cost came up directly. Uppena's answer starts on a Wisconsin dairy, where his dad added cows when milk was cheap and added cows when milk was dear, because production is the lever you control. Soybean seed treatments and corn fungicides drew the same skepticism before they became standard. What he wants to earn is repeatable ROI, which is why Corteva is running thousands of field scale trials to say where the products pay and where they do not. Growers start with a Pioneer rep; the brand is Nexta.
“All of our biological products are designed to help the plant weather the storm when stress occurs.”
— Dan Uppena
Key Takeaways
Unexplained yield swings of 40 to 50 bushels inside one field point at soil biology, the leg of the yield equation that has not advanced like genetics and management.
The mechanism is hormonal. Supplemental auxins, cytokinin and gibberellic acid keep growth ahead of ethylene and abscisic acid at the stress points.
Ask a biological seller three things: is there a known mode of action, is there an EPA registration, and how many replicated trials sit behind the claim.
These go on passes you already make, planter, post herbicide and fungicide, so the added cost is product rather than another trip across the field.
Barron's frame for a tight year is that the cheapest way to cut cost per bushel is to add bushels, not to strip the budget.
Judge the products on repeatability. A response in one field in one year that does not repeat the next year is not an ROI.
Full Transcript
Chris
Barron: Welcome everybody to another episode of the Ag View Pitch. We are going to have an interesting conversation to hear around biologicals, and this is going to be a learning opportunity, so I highly recommend you stay tuned for this whole conversation. We're lucky enough to have with us today Dan Uppena, who is good— I consider a good friend of mine and also a a working partner over the years with Corteva, and Dan is the U.S. sales leader for Corteva Biologicals. Dan, how's it going?
Dan
Uppena: Going excellent. Looking, looking forward to a little time for holidays, but as you know, the crazy busy time trying to get everything done before the end of the year.
Chris
Barron: Yeah, for sure. For sure. So I'm excited to have this conversation for a couple of reasons. Number one, Unfortunately, as we record this, we're in— I feel like it's a, it's an economic, massive economic challenge right now for farmers. We're seeing low commodity prices, we're seeing really tight margins, we're seeing, you know, profit losses and some things like that. And that's the bad side of it. But the good side of it is there's a lot of things that are in our control that we can, can actually grab a hold of and use certain tools and grab certain levers. And we just got to make sure we pull the right levers and do that, do some of the right things. And one of the things today I want to talk to you about is, is biologicals. And the reason for that is, you know, perspective out there or a lot of thoughts and ideas of is it the right thing to do? Is it not the right thing to do?
Why is, you know, why should we be doing that and where can we be cutting costs? And it's one of the areas where I think Sometimes people would look at that area as, you know, well, that's, that's an area where I'm going to cut costs. And on, on the other side of the equation, one of the things I always say is, you know, the most important way to consider to lower your cost of production is to increase yield. This is one of the things that, you know, in talking to you, and that's why I'm excited to have this conversation today, is just some of the things that I think we can do to enhance yield, protect yield, you know, and look at what some of the some of the things are that Corteva is doing and why Corteva is in this business now is kind of what I want to get to with you today.
So the first question I want to ask you is explain to me and the audience here Corteva Biologicals and what's, what's that mean? What's— talk a little bit about, you know, initially here, what does it all mean?
Dan
Uppena: So biological, super broad term, right? Yeah. And as you mentioned, anytime I've talked to a grower about this, I've been 31 years, not, not this job, but you know, in the industry. I always look at things, you know, if it were my dad, it were, it were my brother-in-law, you know, my family, everybody's had the experience of combining a field, looking at that yield monitor. And you see that thing vary, right? In any field, sometimes it's a tight variance, sometimes it can be 40, 50 bushels.. And a lot of times you can explain what happened, right? It's easy to explain drainage differences, maybe some stand differences, things like that. But just as often, it's not obvious.
We start to think about, okay, what, what was different about this spot that was sort of yield for the field, and this other spot that was, you know, near the top, or it rang the bell at 300 on the yield monitor. So as students of agronomy, we've always been taught sort of the chemical and physical properties of the soil, you know, the basics of fertility, pH, cation exchange capacity, you name it, all those sort of classically trained things. But there's this whole realm of microbiology in the soil. One of my very favorite smells is when you first till the soil in the spring. That has a smell to it, right?
Chris
Barron: Yeah, definitely.
Dan
Uppena: I mean, everybody listening to this podcast, if they've had variance, they can just put themselves and they can smell that aroma, right? Or if you're like me and you're from Wisconsin, it might be a little slightly different smell that you're thinking of. But anyway, the reason you can smell it is because it's alive, right? And so the third realm of kind of soil characteristics or properties is this whole realm of soil microbiology. Yield equation: genetics by management by environment. We've historically made incredible advances in genetics and management. The third leg of the stool here is this whole environmental piece, soil microbiology. And so if we can figure out how to add to that soil health and vibrance, I think we can unlock a frontier in yields.
Chris
Barron: Talk a little bit about, you know, why, why did Corteva get in this space in the first place? And what You know, what's different?
Dan
Uppena: Probably the best way for— or I think about, or the best way I've explained it when somebody asked me, like, even outside our industry, like, hey, what's this biological space about? Let's look at David Hula and Alex Harrell, current corn and soybean world record holders. Okay, in their contest fields, what did they do better than anybody else? If we agree that yield potential is the highest when it's in the bag, Once we take it out of the bag, we expose it to stress. So what have they done? They've done the best job of limiting the number of yield loss days or bad days that their crop has throughout the season, right? Now they're doing that at a smaller sort of contest field scale, but they're also learning to use some advanced management tools to apply to their larger field scale.
All of our biological products are designed to help the plant weather the storm when stress occurs.
Chris
Barron: So there's a, I don't know how many biological products on the market. There's tons. And what's different with, with your products or with the products that Corteva has versus, you know, other stuff in the industry?
Dan
Uppena: What really differentiates Corteva is a few things. The first thing is we can explain how our products work. And that seems like a kind of a trivial thing, but it's actually a big thing when you think about, you know, how, how much interaction occurs in the environment and do you have a known mode of action? And then that leads to the second thing, which is EPA registrations. In order to have an EPA registration, you have to have data to back up what you're claiming that these products will do. The products we sell have EPA registrations. The third piece is what we call stable formulations. So formulations that have an extended shelf life, ones that are formulated with glycol-type formulations where they're very stable. And then the last piece is how much testing and research has gone on it.
If I'm sitting next to a grower, and inevitably they would ask the question, hey, What do you got? And does this stuff actually work? Right? We've got 90 pages of research data that we can walk through with a grower, replicated research trials that kind of prove that, hey, there's something here with these products in terms of how we use them.
Chris
Barron: Interesting. So talk a little bit about the products then. I mean, what are some of the specific things that you guys are offering that you know, that the producer might want to consider or think about or look at?
Dan
Uppena: So the 3 growth hormones in, in crops that we deal with, auxins, cytokinin, and gibberellin. Those, those are the 3 primary growth hormones. And having those growth hormones, uh, in the right ratio at the right time is really the key at any given time for your plant to feel healthy and continue to focus on growth versus survival. The two stress hormones are called ethylene and abscisic acid. We need ethylene and abscisic acid kind of at the finish line in, in finishing our crop, but during the growth season we want to make sure that we kind of hold those at bay and keep the growth hormones in charge. The core of our product lineup is supplemental doses of those three growth hormones: auxins, cytokinin, gibberellic acid.
So we have a number of products that are formulated to provide supplemental doses of those growth hormones so that we can pre-stress condition the crop at key yield-determining stages. So we can go along for the ride with the planter application, we can go along for the ride with the post-herbicide application, and we can go along for the ride with the fungicide application.
Chris
Barron: Give me an example of that. I think You know, I was talking to you, I don't know, last summer or something, and one of the things you mentioned that I really thought was interesting is, you know, how like in a sandy area of the field or a lighter area of the field or lack of rain and that plant starts to decide we're going to start shutting down. Give that explanation. I thought that was really good.
Dan
Uppena: Every group of key environments throughout their farm, you've got fields and farms that are highly productive, well-drained. You've got others not so much, different soil types, as you mentioned. At any given time, think of this tug of war that's happening on any given day. You want the growth hormones to be winning the tug of war. You want them to be pulling on the rope. When they're pulling on the rope, especially during the grand growth stages within corn and soybeans, things are going well. The photosynthetic factory is doing what it should. You're, you're packing starch and sugars into that producing seed. Unfortunately, there's days when the stress hormones start to pull on that rope, and when the stress hormones pull on that rope, basically growth shuts down.
Plant instead says, I'm going to hunker down and just focus on survival today versus putting everything I can into that, into that reproductive side of the plant. So I think, I think the day we were talking about it is, you know, we were off to a slow start. Obviously, we had, you know, some, some wet conditions. Like any other spring, we have cool conditions. Just the fact that we can add in that early post window, we can add some supplemental doses of cytokinin and auxins to really jump start and prepare that plant for that grand growth stage just makes a lot of sense. And we've seen some pretty tremendous yield responses from doing that.
Chris
Barron: That's pretty awesome. And then just again for clarification, so there's essentially three product applications, and I like how you said that, going along for the ride with the planter, going along for the herbicide application, and then riding along for the fungicide application. Is there any antagonisms or any concerns or issues in that respect that a person needs to be aware of? Not everybody likes the easy button, but on the same token, you want to, you want it to be practical as it fits into, you know, a system? And can you do— and I'm gonna— and the last part of the question is, can you do one and not another? You know, can you do the, you know, the one that goes along with the planter or the one that goes along with the herbicide and not do others or something?
Dan
Uppena: All of these products are extremely safe. They're well-tested. They can tank mix with virtually everything. Wide window of application. Basically can use them at any given timing within the crop. We just— we marry up with when those passes are happening across the field anyway. And then, you know, even things like RainFast, these things can bind to a receptor within minutes. So very rain fast and extend the right message.
Chris
Barron: Interesting. So this is something that I'm gonna have an opinion on, but I want to ask you first. And so, you know, how do you justify the cost? You know, we, I started out the conversation around the idea that margins are tight and, you know, I want to, I want to hear your two cents and I'll throw mine in there, but I want to hear, you you know, from the company perspective, how do you justify the expense?
Dan
Uppena: You know, I've worked with you long enough to know that on any given day, you can tell me exactly what the crop budget is. Yeah, for either corn or soybeans, right. And it's a great question. You know, I kind of start with just a little anecdote. So, you know, growing up in Wisconsin and being around cows most of my formative years, we always had a little bit of a joke when milk prices are low, which they commonly were. You add cows, or it seemed like my dad added cows. And then when milk prices are high, we added cows. And the reason behind that, right, is there's a lot of variables in running a dairy. And, you know, that's, that's one of the levers that you can pull, right? More production. And so I don't think it's a whole lot different. When we look at crops, what can I do to add bushels? This is new ideas.
You know, when soybean seed treatments were first introduced, right, lots of skepticism, but now it's pretty common that people use that as part of their program. Corn fungicides, when those were first introduced, you know, we had to figure out exactly how to optimize their use. But, you know, a lot of farmers would consider that an essential production tool at this point. I think we're just at the, at the forefront of figuring out how to use these biologicals. What's unique about us, and I think what we can bring to the table, is we have the people and the expertise to test these things over a large number of acres. We get a couple of years under our belt with these products. I think we're going to do what we've always done, and that is figure out how to use them in the best possible way for the biggest possible benefit.
It pays growers to always be on the lookout for innovative ideas that can add bushels. What our focus is, is how do we make it repeatable and make that ROI consistent? Because I think we've had lots of experiences where they'll try some of these things for a year, they'll see a response in a field or in a given year, and then they go back and try to do that again and they have different results. We're going to do a tremendous amount of research across wide field-scale testing. I'm talking thousands of, of trials so that we can not only recommend these products to growers but recommend Here's where they work the best for the most repeatable ROI. And here's some things we learn about where maybe they don't fit.
And I think that, that scale and that testing and the ability to add that sort of advice, I think it's really going to differentiate how we go about this versus, hey, it's great, just use it everywhere.
Chris
Barron: Mm-hmm. I like that idea of it's going to be, you know, you're testing that over a very large massive area. And so the consistency of the data gets better the more of it you do. And so that's, I think that's a really key thing. Um, I have another question too, or as we get to wrapping up here, but sort of a final question is, so growers are listening to this and I want to follow up with you and do get some more information on this another time on just some different things. But producers want to talk to somebody, like, who do they go to? Who do they talk to? And where's the best place to get the information on some of these products and to start doing some research?
At the very least, I think people need to investigate this, you know, because I think the opportunities and some of the stuff you guys are bringing to the table is the reason why I had you come on here on the Ag View Pitches, because I think there's, there's really something here that I think people need to be, be thinking about. But what's the best way for individuals to go out and get a hold of somebody and start looking at some possibilities in their own operation.
Dan
Uppena: We have an exclusive brand for the Pioneer seed channels called Nexta. If you want to learn more about Nexta products, which is kind of the core of the lineup that I briefly alluded to today, get in touch with your local Pioneer representative. And then we'll also be selling these through a different brand through some select retailers as well. I would get started by just reaching out to your local Pioneer representative, and they can at least get you started. With some information. Yes, we've got all kinds of specifics around the actual products and what they do, how to use them, and how you would benefit from using them. But really today, just wanted to give you the bird's eye view.
Chris
Barron: Yeah, I appreciate that. I think this is a great introduction and I'm, I'm with you 100%. I think the products, the, the how-tos, the what to expect, the things to consider, how to, to be a part of that. Big research bucket. I think sometimes, you know, when we're testing a few things and learning, I think that those are the opportunities to really grow our business and to, to learn some things. And, and sometimes being on the front end of that when, when, uh, it looks very bleak, those are the opportunities usually to, to capitalize on some, on some key learnings that actually ends up improving the bottom line. So with that said, I'm going to give you the last word, and then, um, I'm going to follow up with you if you're okay with that, even if we got to throw some some bits and pieces into some of the podcasts as we go, we may do that. But I'm gonna give you the last word.
Dan
Uppena: Our little catchphrase here is stress less, yield more. So that really, that's what it's all about. You're going to encounter— your corn crop's going to encounter stress. Our ability, or your soybean crop, our ability to limit the impact of those stressful days is what unlocks the yield advantages of using logicals. And if we do it right and we put the science behind it, we can make it repeatable. We can give growers solid advice on where these products fit and where they don't. Uh, we're in it for the long haul. Um, like everything we do, we've got an obligation to sign and service what we sell.
So, uh, we don't have all the answers, but my experience, 30 years working with innovative growers, if we put our heads together and do the work, we can typically figure out how to make things ultimately give you an opportunity to kind of yield your way out of a crop budget that's a little tougher this year. Really, let's start a conversation, talk about how Nextiva products can help.
Chris
Barron: That's awesome. I, you know, you look at what the USDA thought where the yields was going to shake out, and, you know, it was wet, or it was too dry, or too cold, or too hot, or it's always too something. And we still seem to produce an amazing amount, and it's because of the innovation and the things we're doing. And I think we got to keep that up. And this is just— this is another one of those levers that's being added to the equation. And, and I think got to— we got to pay attention because we want to be a part of it when it's happening. So, all right, with that said, Dan, thank you. Thanks everybody for listening. Again, if you got other topics, things you want us to be hitting on, more information you'd like, please send us emails and let us know. With that said, Thanks again. We'll catch you next time on the Ag View Pitch.