About This Episode
Chris Barron brings on Matt Todd of Grain Handler in Lakeville, Minnesota, the man he says he has on speed dial every fall. Grain Handler is a family company started more than 30 years ago by Todd's two uncles, who were looking for a better way to dry corn at their elevator in St. Charles, Minnesota. The mixed flow process they build around originated in Canada, and Todd says larger manufacturers have since moved into the same design as grain quality expectations have changed.
The mechanical argument is retention time. A mixed flow dryer holds a much larger grain column than a screen or tower dryer, so the corn moves through slower and gets cooked rather than flash heated and cooled. Because there is no screen to blow through, the fan pushes roughly 40 CFM over the burner instead of 80 to 120, which is where the fuel savings come from. Todd cites a University of Wisconsin study comparing dryer types on both fuel use and finished test weight.
Barron and Todd also get practical. Bigger bins have reduced the appeal of dumping hot, since heat and cool lets grain go straight from dryer to bin. Newer machines run a single drive so the metering rolls and drag conveyor slow together, keeping the drag about 80 percent full. Todd resists full automation, arguing you should know your dryer before turning it loose. Hybrid endosperm matters more than most expect, and natural gas beats LP by several cents a bushel where you can get it.
“You've planted this corn, you've fertilized it, you've grown this corn. The last thing it's going through is the dryer.”
— Matt Todd
Key Takeaways
A mixed flow dryer holds a bigger grain column and dries slower, which protects test weight compared with a screen or tower dryer that flash heats and cools a thinner column.
Grain Handler targets about 40 CFM over the burner instead of the 80 to 120 CFM a screen dryer needs, and less air over the flame means less fuel burned per bushel.
A University of Wisconsin study compared screen and mixed flow dryers across manufacturers on both fuel usage and finished test weight.
Newer units use a single drive so the metering rolls and drag conveyor slow together, keeping the drag roughly 80 percent full for better grain quality.
Natural gas runs about 4 to 6 cents a bushel cheaper than LP, but roughly 80 percent of Grain Handler's customers are on LP because of rural access.
Capacity swings with the hybrid, not the machine: a hard endosperm kernel at 19 percent can take more drying than a softer hybrid at 24 percent.
Full Transcript
Narrator: And it all comes down to this. Two on, two out, bottom of the ninth. The Farmers lead by one. Full count, here comes the play at the plate, and it's the Ag View Pitch!
Chris
Barron: Welcome everybody to another episode of the Ag View Pitch, and today we're going to have a conversation about a key topic as we head into fall harvest, and that's grain handling and drying. And I've got a special guest with us here today, It's a guy that has worked with us in our own farm operation on our dryer and kind of been my right-hand man around the dryer. And so we'll go ahead and introduce you, Matt Todd. He's with Grain Handler in Lakeville, Minnesota. Go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself, about the company, and we'll get going with the conversation.
Matt
Todd: Well, yeah, hey, I am with Grain Handler. I'm a salesperson and also a service person during the fall. I think it's kind of an all hands on deck thing with our company. During the fall. We're a family company, started over 30 years ago. My two uncles started this company just because they found a way to dry corn better and was more productive for their site. We have an elevator in St. Charles, Minnesota, and that's where the company started. And we've, we've expanded our facility. Our manufacturing now is in Lakeville. We also have, still have our facility in St. Charles where we do a lot of manufacturing and also a lot of service work out of there. But it's, it's the mixed flow process is what we've kind of adopted as far as drying.
Chris
Barron: So are you guys, uh, the first or one of the first that kind of came up with that concept, or is that something that was, you know, preceded your uncle's before?
Matt
Todd: It wasn't the first. The, the company basically started out of Canada, uh, is where it kind of originated, the mixed flow process. Um, there The company of Grain Handler was a Canadian company that we ended up purchasing from people that went under in Canada. And, um, but still, we are, you know, in the, in the States, it's more— the first ones were us and Nico were kind of the first two. Vertec was also a Canadian company that was, was building grain dryers, uh, mixed flow dryers. But we, you know, We've really taken it to the next level along with other competitors that are now getting into the market because it is such a— people are— because grains are so much different now and then they were back, back in the day, where the mix flow process is becoming very much more popular. And so now all the other bigger manufacturers are building these dryers as well.
Chris
Barron: So talk about the mix flow process for a minute for the listeners. So obviously there's a lot of dryers out there. There's you know, you see the tower dryers and you see the screen dryers and stuff. What, what does mixed flow mean? What's it do differently than a standard dryer?
Matt
Todd: I think the biggest thing with the mixed flow dryer, it's more about retention time. It holds more corn in it, and it's a slower, more even drying process than, say, any screen dryer, whether it's a tower dryer, a horizontal screen dryer. The grain column's so much smaller, it holds a lot less corn. So you're basically pushing that corn through the dryer faster and it's flash heating it and cooling it before, uh, you know, in a lot faster rate. So it's not necessarily holding the quality of the corn, whereas a mixed flow dryer with a bigger grain column, a slower process, holds more corn. You can kind of slow cook the, the moisture out of the corn and also holding on to that test weight, which is the biggest thing. Grain quality and test weight is the two biggest things that we deal with in a grain handler.
Chris
Barron: So that's kind of a key thing, you know, the test weight. So is there data that you've seen or something that kind of shows drying that corn, say, in half the time versus double the time, that you retain better test weight?
Matt
Todd: Yeah, there's, there's some studies that have been done at different universities. One in particular was done, oh shoot, probably 5 years ago at the University of Wisconsin that compared a lot of different, um, you know, screen dryers versus mixed flow dryers and different manufacturers. And it showed that the fuel usage and the test weight— there's a lot of different aspects of obviously, uh, with drying corn. I mean, it's, it's kind of a big process. But with those two, use less fuel to get higher test weights is the biggest thing.
Chris
Barron: And the way you're using less fuel is you have more total bushels in the dryer, so your capacity is essentially the same as a screen dryer, but it—
Matt
Todd: well, you're blowing less air. So if you think about it as a screen dryer, because they have to blow through a screen, through a grain column, through another screen, um, they have to blow a lot more air. So blowing any— that much air over a burner, just like any other fuel source, if you're putting a lot a lot of air to— whether you have a piece of wood that's burning and you blow on it, it's going to consume that piece of wood faster. So you're going to burn more of your, your, your fuel source if you have more air. So we use about 40 CFM is what we shoot for as far as what, uh, what we want to blow over our burner. So we're— by blowing that much CFM rather than 80 to 120 CFM, you're, you're going to use less fuel in the long term.
Chris
Barron: Okay, so another question I have for you is there's a lot of producers out here that have a tendency to want to dump hot, and there's less of that. And we talked offline a little bit, you see less of that because bins are getting bigger and people are not going to want to, you know, fill a 100,000-bushel bin half full or a third full with hot corn. But, um, what advantage is it, you know, with with your mix flow dryer to be able to dump cool easier. Yep.
Matt
Todd: More, more volume. We manufacture both styles of dryer. I mean, we have side fan models that, that are— have the ability to dump hot for people that still want to do that. It's just more of a labor-intensive process to dump hot than it is to do heat and cool. Heat and cool will, will just— it— with the bins, you can basically— the bin size that you have now, you you can come right outta the dryer and go right into the bin and it's no worries. But with, if you're dumping hot, you know, then you gotta move it here, you gotta move it there, you gotta steep it, you know, all the, that bigger problem. It doesn't necessarily, you know, you may think you're getting more capacity, but at what price as far as your work? What's your time worth? Right.
Chris
Barron: Well, and just the quality and the insurance of what's coming outta that dryer.
Matt
Todd: I mean, realistically, the, you know, other than mixed flow dryers, the best, the best quality you're going to get out of any grain is like an in-bin drying system and that you're going to get great quality out of that. But you just can't get anything done. You know, farms aren't getting smaller, they're getting bigger. You need to get something, you need to get a lot more throughput. So that's where the mixed flow has really stepped up because, you know, yeah, you can get a lot done with a screen dryer, but at what cost? Where, how your cost of your, you know, your quality of corn you want to, you know, people pay premium, you know, depending upon how you're, you're set up or where you're marketing your grain to. You can get paid a premium for, for quality product.
Chris
Barron: And, you know, or, or if you don't get a premium, you might not get a deduct, right?
Matt
Todd: Exactly.
Chris
Barron: Yeah, exactly.
Matt
Todd: And the thing is, this is the last thing the dryer— the dryer is the last thing that you— that it's going to, you know, you've planted this corn, you've fertilized it, you've grown this corn. The last thing it's going through is the dryer. You wanna make sure that it's gonna be the best quality you can have coming out.
Chris
Barron: Do you, as far as quality getting it out, so your system is a conveyor system underneath the metering rolls and everything that way too. Any other key things with the mix flow?
Matt
Todd: Yeah, we actually, when we first started building dryers, we had augers under the, you know, for unloads. We went 100% away from that. We've only do drag conveyors. And since, you know, the last 4 years, I believe, we've been doing a, we call it our single drive system, which the metering rolls and the drag conveyors are controlled by the same motor and gearbox. So when you slow the metering rolls down, you're also slowing that drag down. So the drag is always gonna be about 80% full, which is gonna also is better for grain quality. So, 'cause the way it used to be, you, you would meter out, uh, corn at whatever rate you were doing it, but your drag was moving full speed, right? You know, and that's, you know, the, the system that you have on your home farm is, is that way.
It just goes as, you know, your drags are running as fast as they can go, but the metering is going at the same. The new dryers are—
Chris
Barron: they match it, they match it. Okay, gotcha. So, um, I guess I'm just trying to think of any other questions. I mean, the, the To me, I guess that's my role is to run the dryer. The last 3 or 4 years I got out of the combine and for some reason everybody around here get in the combine, nobody wants to run the dryer. So, you know, I guess that's the least quote unquote fun place to be in the fall. But I think it's a pretty important place, isn't it? Keeping the grain quality.
Matt
Todd: And the thing of it is too, like nowadays there's a big push in our industry to have these automated systems and to have moisture controllers that basically control the dryer for you and all this stuff. Whereas, you know, at Grain Handler being a family company and, you know, being semi-old school, we are, we really want the people to know their dryer before you actually turn it loose. You turn it loose on its own itself. So, I mean, you can, we offer, you know, moisture controllers that you can operate from your phone. You can, you know, monitor everything, but it's not something that we make you have. I think that's something that a lot of manufacturers are missing that, You know, everything just doesn't have to do it for you. You actually have, especially a dryer.
I mean, you can, you have a big gas-powered appliance sitting out in the middle of, you know, not right in, not close by your home, or maybe it is. But if, if something goes wrong with that computer board or with that system, it's not, you know, if you don't have someone there and you know the dryer's on fire, it might not know that. That's what I mean. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So you got to know your dryer before you start turning it loose. Right, you said.
Chris
Barron: Well, and that's the thing. I mean, um, I'm probably crazy, but I'm the electronic control. I mean, I— and we set it on your system, we set it on manual. And, you know, and you and I talked offline, it's a lot of it has to do with understanding your hybrids, right? Because you're going to have some hybrids with a hard endosperm that are going to be harder to dry. They're a harder textured kernel, you know. It could be 19%, and it may take a little bit more to dry that hybrid at 19% than another hybrid at 24% just because of the, you know, the texture of the kernel.
Matt
Todd: And I think that's the biggest thing that a lot of, uh, maybe non-farmers that I've dealt with too in this industry, they don't realize that because it's, you know, last 15 years hybrids have gone crazy. I mean, there's different things, and they've been great. They definitely help with a lot of different things. But the dryers haven't changed that much. So you can be, you know, I'll have a guy that says he's getting, you know, great capacity on his dryer one year, and the next year he'll call me and say, hey, I'm, you know, 30% below what I was getting last year. Why? I'm like, what changed? The dryer didn't change. What did you do? Like, well, I put different corn in the field. Well, okay, well, that changes everything. You know, it's all different. And also the season— last season is so much different than this season.
You know, with the, you know, how much heat units we've gotten and how much we've got, you know.
Chris
Barron: Well, the drought and everything in certain areas, in some areas, you know, it wasn't a drought. That was one, one kind of last question I had is on the, on, you know, you talked about outside temperature last year. We were, we were drying corn here in Iowa like you guys in, in northern Minnesota and, and North Dakota and South Dakota.
Matt
Todd: We're thinking about drying at this point, you know, in September.
Chris
Barron: No, I mean, yeah, we, we didn't even turn the dryer on until middle October. Last year, and we were drying corn until the end of November, and it was, you know, 10 degrees out, and I couldn't— you know, I mean, we're just not used to that. We dry more corn when it's 70 degrees than we do when it's 10. And so I was finding myself calling some of the producers we work with, and I bugged you about 18 different times. But, you know, just things operate different, don't they, when the temperature's a lot different?
Matt
Todd: I mean, obviously you're going to burn less fuel if it's warmer out, so it's better to I mean, that's a, that's a big thing in the world of why you should have a dryer is to pick early, you know, dry when it's, when you, you know, when the outside temperature is warmer. Exactly.
Chris
Barron: You know, and, and there is a phantom yield loss. We won't get into that right now. I got a client that, that does a great job of, of analyzing that and explaining how it's real. You know, he wants to dry corn, he wants to pick corn at 23%. He feels like if he's picking corn that's any drier than that, he's leaving bushels in the field, you know. And, and that's a whole nother topic, but But that's where the dryer comes in, right?
Matt
Todd: And I think the thing about drying corn, and it's, you know, it's not a— it's not rocket science, it's heat, time, and air. But it all changes based on what, A, what you're putting in the dryer, A, what— B, what the outside temperature is and how the season was. I mean, you could have the same, and people don't like to turn their temperature up, especially when it gets cold outside. Because, you know, it does, you know, cost more money. It, it affects your grain quality if you start cranking the heat up. That's another thing about the Mix Flow, with having that bigger grain column and hold— the holding capacity is a lot larger, is greater than in a, in a screen dryer. You're just getting, you're getting a better quality grain coming out. And whether you're, whether you're drying canola or you're drying, you know, beans or sunflowers or corn.
Chris
Barron: Well, last year there were a lot of guys drying soybeans, right? Yeah.
Matt
Todd: And that's never fun. No one wants to do that.
Chris
Barron: That's not fun. So last question here. Last, last question. LP versus natural gas. I mean, what do you see is the majority are still LP and you have some that are lucky enough to be close to natural gas?
Matt
Todd: I mean, I think the thing that I've seen is everybody wants to be on natural gas, obviously. —but I want to be, I can't be. Yeah, the cost to get it to you is where, you know, the utility has you, you know, right? They have you. They— you can't get it anywhere else. So, um, you know, cost-wise, you're, you know, you're looking, you know, you're going to save yourself about 4 or 5 cents, 6 cents a bushel if you can get the natural gas, right? Um, it's a big savings.
Chris
Barron: It's a big savings when you're— what percent do you think of the clients you have that you work with are on LP versus natural gas?
Matt
Todd: Majority. The thing about Grain Handler is that we do a lot of stuff with single-phase customers and those customers are normally always LP. We do a lot. I mean, LP is probably 80%. Okay. And just because it's, you know, you're still in the rural area and, you know, it's hard to get natural gas unless you're fortunate enough. Yeah. You know, and a lot of guys are moving their sites 'cause they, part of their field, one field, they'll sacrifice a chunk chunk of their field to put a site up there because it's close to the, the natural gas line. Because in the long run, it's gonna—
Chris
Barron: yeah, it pays, it pays the bills. Yep. So anything else that I didn't ask? I mean, this has been a good conversation. Anything that I didn't think of or whatever?
Matt
Todd: You know, I don't necessarily think— I just think the, the biggest thing that I, I— whatever dryer, dryer company or dryer you want to go with, I think having an on-farm dryer is an important thing. You know, nobody— you know, the elevators, if if you have to take your— haul your grain to an elevator to get dried and then bring it back to store and market it from there, it's just the, the dollars just go out of your pocket. So I think there's benefit in having a dryer, whether it's a Grain Hauler dryer or any other manufacturer out there. But obviously I'm partial. Yeah, well, that's good.
Chris
Barron: That's good. Well, hey, Matt, I really appreciate it. I told you offline, I, I have you on my speed dial on my phone last year. I don't know how many times I bugged you. It was quite a few. And getting ready for the podcast, I'm like, you know, what, what's your last name? I've got you in my phone as Matt Grain Handlers. So, so Matt, Todd, uh, um, go ahead.
Matt
Todd: That's the biggest thing for, for us at Grain Handlers. We are a very service-based company. Like, you can call me, and you did, and I do. Yeah, call me, and we answer our phones. We definitely can troubleshoot things, um, and we do a lot of service aspect. That's the biggest thing that we Pride ourselves on not only making a good product but actually following up with it.
Chris
Barron: Sure. Well, I'll throw you this one then. If anybody wants to get a hold of you to ask some dryer questions or anything about grain handling and drying, how would they get a hold of you?
Matt
Todd: Well, you can, you can email me at matt.todd@grainhandler.com, or you can, you can call me directly. My number, my number is 608-385-7797.
Chris
Barron: 608-385-7797. You might get a couple of phone calls now. Perfect. Sorry about that. But no, it's all right. No, but call me at midnight.
Matt
Todd: Yeah, unless you really need me.
Chris
Barron: Well, yeah, but you know, I, I think that, that says a lot, you know, about a company. It's the key thing is, you know, really does come down to service. I mean, all, all of this equipment out here anymore is pretty darn good, you know. All the dryers I think are good, but it still People buy from people. People, you know, require good service, and you guys have done a great job for us and really appreciate it. Appreciate it. So, all right, well, Matt, thank you. Appreciate it. It's been a great conversation, and I'd like to thank everybody for listening again, and we will catch you next time on the Ag View Pitch.